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Stop expanding the ULEZ to all the London boroughs in 2023

It's a tax. Nothing more and nothing less. A common scam by penalizing the 99% and suggesting that they can avoid the inconvenience by taking on a bigger burden of buying a new car. Didn't they do the same thing with diesel 20 years ago?

Cars pollute less than they did 30 years ago and as a result, you don't hear of smog in cities like London or Los Angeles for that matter and newer cars will naturally take over without the need of ULEZ. So what's going to happen when all cars become Ulez compliant? Will the city give up this revenue? I doubt it.

The big question is how does this thread stop the expansion?

Yes it's a tax, but it's a tax that can be avoided. People affected can either use public transport where possible, or replace their Diesel cars with petrol cars (any petrol car registered after 2004 is compliant).

As for pollution... there's data to show that NOx emissions from car exhausts in built-up areas are causing health problems. Why dismiss it?

BTW, I don't disagree with the premise that this move was politically and financially motivated, but even so, it does not mean that the move itself is wrong.
 
It's a tax. Nothing more and nothing less. A common scam by penalizing the 99% and suggesting that they can avoid the inconvenience by taking on a bigger burden of buying a new car. Didn't they do the same thing with diesel 20 years ago?

Cars pollute less than they did 30 years ago and as a result, you don't hear of smog in cities like London or Los Angeles for that matter and newer cars will naturally take over without the need of ULEZ. So what's going to happen when all cars become Ulez compliant? Will the city give up this revenue? I doubt it.

The big question is how does this thread stop the expansion?
This is what is going to happen when the cars are all compliant. The revenue raising has to change direction to ALL vehicles to keep the money rolling in.
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Is that not just someones proposal rather than set in stone?....that's what I read elsewhere anyway.
 
Is that not just someones proposal rather than set in stone?....that's what I read elsewhere anyway.
I posted it a week or so ago . The timeline is starting to look accurate though . But it’s a valid question asked above , when everyone is compliant car wise then where does the money come from?
 
I posted it a week or so ago . The timeline is starting to look accurate though . But it’s a valid question asked above , when everyone is compliant car wise then where does the money come from?

The same issue applies to smoking and drinking.

The government is taxing tobacco and alcohol because they want to reduce consumption. But if everyone stopped smoking and drinking... the treasury will have a gapping hole in its finances.

So, I'll tell you a story... a friend of mine owns a small plot of land nearby, that is used as an off-street pay-and-display car park (fitting about 10 cars). The site is fully set-up as a public car park, complete with marked bays, posted notices, a ticket machine and CCTV camera.

My friend said that the site is operated by a parking management firm, who gives him 100% of the parking fees collected by the ticket machine. In return, the parking company gets to keep all the fines that it collects from drivers who park in breach of the posted contract.

This may sound like a very poor business model on the part of the parking company, but in fact they know their business... and their model is based on human behaviour. No matter how big and clear the signs are, or how prominent is the camera, there will always be drivers who will either park without paying, or exceed the permitted parking duration.

The same applies to all traffic enforcement systems. In theory, traffic wardens who issue no tickets at all are the most effective, because the more parking tickets they issue, the less effective their job is in preventing illegal parking. Speed cameras that do not catch any speeding drivers are 100% effective is preventing speeding, while those who catch a lot of rivers are clearly useless at achieving what they are meant to achieve. It's a spin-off from the 'survivor bias'.

The short answer, is that if you take a large enough group of people, they will never all be 100% compliant, and that's how the scheme will be paid for.
 
I posted it a week or so ago . The timeline is starting to look accurate though . But it’s a valid question asked above , when everyone is compliant car wise then where does the money come from?
When everyone is compliant car wise then the tax will move away from exhaust emission and towards brake dust and tyre wear pollution. Tax will be based on miles travelled. By that stage there will be toll tax for all major A routes and motorways so it will be already "accepted".
 
When everyone is compliant car wise then the tax will move away from exhaust emission and towards brake dust and tyre wear pollution...

This will grossly favour EVs, and ICE car drivers won't be happy.

Tax will be based on miles travelled. By that stage there will be toll tax for all major A routes and motorways so it will be already "accepted".

I think this is the only way forward, given that it's very difficult to tax electricity for EVs (because they can be charged from a normal mains socket, albeit slowly). The system should be based on ANPR (so not need to install black boxes in cars), and charging should be variable for each section of the journey and be based on the mileage driven, the location, the time of day, and the type of vehicle. So driving an EV on country roads at night for miles and miles should be very cheap, while driving an ICE SUV in Central London at 8:00am should be very expensive. And, as traffic patterns change, so can pricing - the cost can be automatically adjusted on-the-go as required to achieve the desired traffic levels. For example, if traffic on the M25 is heavily congested at 8:00am, then the cost per my will go up until traffic eases, and vice-versa - if traffic is light, the cost will go down accordingly until traffic starts building up again. Seem to me like that's the fairest option.
 
The government is taxing tobacco and alcohol because they want to reduce consumption. But if everyone stopped smoking and drinking... the treasury will have a gapping hole in its finances.
.....which would be largely filled by the massively reduced expenditure in the NHS from all the people who get cancer and the multitude of other diseases that excess drinking and any amount of smoke causes surely???
And who actually smokes now anyway?...can remember the last time I saw someone with "real" ciggy!!!
 
Didn't I read the other day that people were buying 30 / 40 year old cars as they are exempt from ULEZ?

Possibly, though this will only apply to people who can't afford to buy a 20 years old petrol car (costing around £500-£2000), and so it's questionable whether the same people will be able to afford the cost of maintaining of a 30 or 40 years old car.
 
.....which would be largely filled by the massively reduced expenditure in the NHS from all the people who get cancer and the multitude of other diseases that excess drinking and any amount of smoke causes surely???
And who actually smokes now anyway?...can remember the last time I saw someone with "real" ciggy!!!

I remember seeing a study that showed that the extensive treatments given to alcoholics and heavy smokers actually work out cheaper overall for the NHS, because these patients' life spans are shorter, and the cost of geriatric healthcare for people who lead a healthier lifestyle and live longer is overall much higher.
 

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