Stop expanding the ULEZ to all the London boroughs in 2023

[ALFAitalia]

In 2030 all diesels will be banned so that’s what the the cameras will be looking out for and so on and so on.
The cameras will be there long after me, you and Kahn and always earning money for somebody or something.

All diesels will be banned from London after 2030?.....I've not read that......

 

[Benzowner]

Correct, in time ULEZ won't be needed anymore because the older polluting Diesels will all be long gone from our roads, and in the meantime we gain a few years of cleaner air, which we wouldn't have without ULEZ.

But by then, the newer polluting cars will become the older polluting cars as I am sure Euro 6 will be enhanced to 7, 8 or even 9

 

[ChrisHGTV]

Update:

Decided to take a black cab... In the cab now, progress is slow but I anticipated it due to the train strike today, so I left early.

I ventured in on the train yesterday (Guildford to Green Park). It was an absolute delight! Loads of parking spaces at the station, got a seat on the train (unheard of) and got a seat coming back. I imagine it was like this in the 1950's! Actually looking forward to the next strike - i'll plan more London meetings to coincide i think.

 

[markjay]

But by then, the newer polluting cars will become the older polluting cars as I am sure Euro 6 will be enhanced to 7, 8 or even 9

Personally, I believe that EU6 Diesel cars is a problem that will resolve itself, because the complexity and fragility of Diesel postcombustion treatment systems (SCR/DPF/AdBlue) will mean that the majority of these cars won't live to see old age and will be scrapped at 10 years max due to high repair costs. And, if drivers try and 'delete' these systems, VOSA will wisen-up to it and will put in place more stringent MOT inspections to detect this type of fraud.

(Cars equipped with smaller EU6 Diesel engines that manage low emissions without complex systems might survive a little longer)

 

[Darrell]

I ventured in on the train yesterday (Guildford to Green Park). It was an absolute delight! Loads of parking spaces at the station, got a seat on the train (unheard of) and got a seat coming back. I imagine it was like this in the 1950's! Actually looking forward to the next strike - i'll plan more London meetings to coincide i think.

Where your trains not on strike?

 

[MikeInWimbledon]

But by then, the newer polluting cars will become the older polluting cars as I am sure Euro 6 will be enhanced to 7, 8 or even 9

To be more precise, my understanding is that the intention is to replace Euro6 with Euro7 to take effect from 2035.

(Italics and bold are mine) Quote is from the EU itself. Ford discontinued the Fiesta because it believed that Euro7 would add about £5k to the retail price of that little affordable best seller.

"The new Euro 7 emission standards will ensure that cars, vans, lorries and buses are much cleaner, in real driving conditions that better reflect the situation in cities where air pollution problems are largest, and for a much longer period than under current rules. The proposal tackles emissions from tailpipes as well as from brakes and tyres. It also contributes to achieving the new stricter air quality standards proposed by the Commission on 26 October 2022.

While CO2 emission rules will drive the deployment of zero-emission vehicles, it is important to ensure that all vehicles on our roads are much cleaner. In 2035, all cars and vans sold in the EU will have zero CO2-emissions. However, in 2050, more than 20% of cars and vans and more than half of the heavier vehicles in our streets are expected to continue to emit pollutants from the tailpipe. Battery electric vehicles also still cause pollution from brakes and microplastics from tyres.

Euro 7 rules will reduce all these emissions and keep vehicles affordable to consumers."

Press corner

 

[ChipChop]

Personally, I believe that EU6 Diesel cars is a problem that will resolve itself, because the complexity and fragility of Diesel postcombustion treatment systems (SCR/DPF/AdBlue) will mean that the majority of these cars won't live to see old age and will be scrapped at 10 years max due to high repair costs. And, if drivers try and 'delete' these systems, VOSA will wisen-up to it and will put in place more stringent MOT inspections to detect this type of fraud.

(Cars equipped with smaller EU6 Diesel engines that manage low emissions without complex systems might survive a little longer)

Seems fairly logical that a sustainable vehicle will be simple in nature.

That rules out anything later than Euro 3 and also any EV. Less is more is a relevant phrase.

 

[Dickster]

So far the only valid criticism I've seen is that the new extended zone covered roads in non-residential areas between town centres outside of central London, and that it would have made sense to apply ULEZ only to the actual residential or industrial areas within the new extended zone, rather than a blanket ULEZ that stops people from driving their older Diesel cars on roads when no-one lives or works nearby.

In your opinion. Many would disagree.

 

[ChrisHGTV]

Where your trains not on strike?

A couple were cancelled and the times were slightly different to normal but they were still running.

 

[Darrell]

A couple were cancelled and the times were slightly different to normal but they were still running.

You were lucky, my local service (Thameslink) weren’t running any trains at all and won’t be tomorrow.

What time was your journey and does it go into Waterloo??

 

[ChrisHGTV]

You were lucky, my local service (Thameslink) weren’t running any trains at all and won’t be tomorrow.

What time was your journey and does it go into Waterloo??

That's a bummer. Yes i go into Waterloo from Guildford - the fast train is about 37-40m. I got the later train yesterday that was at 8.34 ish. If you have a look on trainline it has what is running. The only problem is they only seem to update the trains on the morning of the strike so at the moment even looking at tomorrows trains they all seem to be running. If you have a look in the morning though it should show any that are cancelled.

 

[Darrell]

That's a bummer. Yes i go into Waterloo from Guildford - the fast train is about 37-40m. I got the later train yesterday that was at 8.34 ish. If you have a look on trainline it has what is running. The only problem is they only seem to update the trains on the morning of the strike so at the moment even looking at tomorrows trains they all seem to be running. If you have a look in the morning though it should show any that are cancelled.

I think my business partner uses the same line but gets on at Haslemere around 6.20am. He says it’s rammed every morning, costs a bloody fortune and boy, does he moan about it.

We’ve got a job in Woking and one of our hard metals guy travels out of Waterloo on a daily basis. Everyday and both ways there are problems. The service is expensive and shite (his words)

 

[Benzowner]

Personally, I believe that EU6 Diesel cars is a problem that will resolve itself, because the complexity and fragility of Diesel postcombustion treatment systems (SCR/DPF/AdBlue) will mean that the majority of these cars won't live to see old age and will be scrapped at 10 years max due to high repair costs. And, if drivers try and 'delete' these systems, VOSA will wisen-up to it and will put in place more stringent MOT inspections to detect this type of fraud.

(Cars equipped with smaller EU6 Diesel engines that manage low emissions without complex systems might survive a little longer)

I understand your argument, however, the reason we were pushed towards diesels was because they produced far less CO2 than petrols. So the dilemma is NOX v CO2 either we all die from green house gas or we all die with respiratory infections. And I can't see battery power having no problems in the future.

 

[poormansporsche]

I understand your argument, however, the reason we were pushed towards diesels was because they produced far less CO2 than petrols. So the dilemma is NOX v CO2 either we all die from green house gas or we all die with respiratory infections. And I can't see battery power having no problems in the future.

It's the age old question, who do we value the most - "The Ghetto Children" or the "Polar Bears" answers on a postcard ..........

 

[Darrell]

It's the age old question, who do we value the most - "The Ghetto Children" or the "Polar Bears" answers on a postcard ..........

Kahn cares about neither.

 

[markjay]

Seems fairly logical that a sustainable vehicle will be simple in nature.

That rules out anything later than Euro 3 and also any EV. Less is more is a relevant phrase.

Agreed.

Currently, EVs are overly complicated for no obvious reason (other than due to marketing and profit). Very few manufacturers build low-cost EVs. The big flat screens and plethora of driver aid systems and all the other bells and whistles all contribute to the high RRP and the low reliability.

A car that is driven by an electric motor is essentially cheaper to make and is inherently more reliable than one driven by an internal combustion engine and auomatic transmission and all those complex emission reduction systems.

At current there are only two things that drive EVs prices up and are unavoidable: recouping the investment in R&D (which will go away in time), and the cost of the battery (which should get resolved as new technologies emerge).

But apart for these, the high cost of modern EVs is the result of fluff that makes EVs unnecessary complicated and potentially unreliable.

Some manufacturers compensate for this by providing very long warranties, e.g. 5 or 8 years, but this only pushes the problem further down the line.

The Chinese manage to make an electric truck that costs from $2,000 USD, and although not street-legal in Western countries, it does demonstrate that there's a market for simple no-frills EVs that are cheap to make, cheap to run, and are more reliable that the complicated and expensive current creation from main car manufacturers.

(Rant over)

 

[markjay]

In your opinion. Many would disagree.

Disagree with my criticism.... or disagree that it's the only criticism?

 

[markjay]

I understand your argument, however, the reason we were pushed towards diesels was because they produced far less CO2 than petrols. So the dilemma is NOX v CO2 either we all die from green house gas or we all die with respiratory infections. And I can't see battery power having no problems in the future.

Agreed, all that BEVs do is eliminate toxic exhaust gasses. Which is very important to human health, especially in city centres and other urban areas, but at the same time it's only one piece of a very big puzzle.

BEVs won't reduce traffic congregation (compared to ICE cars), they won't significantly reduce CO2 emissions (when whole-life cycle is taken into account), and they won't reduce road deaths.

The only long term solution to our transport maladies is an affordable and efficient public transport system. 80% of the UK population lives in urban areas that could be served efficiently by public transport. The rest can keep their motorcars.

Of course, there are commercial vehicles, tradesmen, disabled people, emergency vehicles, etc, all of which will need to use cars. What when you look at the thousands of cars gridlocking London every morning, you can't help but wonder - are all these car journeys really necessary?

 

[markjay]

Kahn cares about neither.

The 'Ghetto Children' will grow up one day and become voters. Polar bears don't vote, at any age..............

 

[Darrell]

The 'Ghetto Children' will grow up one day and become voters.

Maybe but I wouldn’t bet on it.