Stop expanding the ULEZ to all the London boroughs in 2023

[Dickster]

This isn't right.

More Ubitricity bollards needed:

No. common sense needed and end the ludicrous idea that EVs are the solution.

 

[Dickster]

But what's the alternative? The future of personal transport is electric. This is a global tend (at lease in the West) that is unlikely to be reversed. We simply need to get on with the business of installing more public chargers.

It’s not a trend at all. It’s been legislated.

 

[Dickster]

No, ULEZ won’t affect me because my cars are compliant, not just because I live in Surrey. I drive within the current ULEZ almost every day at present anyway, and the expansion will come very close to me soon regardless.

I’ve owned about 50 cars over the years, but never had a dirty diesel. If I did I’d understand the need for change or if I drove infrequently would probably just pay the charge until change of vehicle was the more appropriate/appealing option.

My GL costs me £695 a year in tax because it emits a lot of CO2. I don’t do many miles in it compared to some, and it’s parked off road during the week. It’s not fair but it’s my choice to own/drive it.

Same as if I wanted to drive an old diesel car in London, they do more mpg and cost less to tax. £12.50 a day in ULEZ. Or buy a compliant car?

Not really a big issue, no one is forced to drive anyway. Plenty of people will be affected but everyone will get used to it soon enough.

There’s always something like this for people to get their knickers in a twist over - low wattage vacuum cleaners, old fashioned light bulbs, creosote, E10 fuel, smoking ban, brexit/covid or whatever. It’s got less to do with Kahn and more to do with inevitable change. Whoever was in charge would have to bring change at some point soon and there’s never a perfect way or time to do so IMHO

I do not agree. We have become very reliant on cars. I live just outside the m25 and the ulez, and could not be without a car.

The examples you gave didn’t cost anything. I commute into London everyday on a motorcycle and lucky for me my 2006 bike is ulez compliant. If it hadn’t been, I would have to replace it as the charge would have increased my committing costs by too much. That’s not right.

Khan is a hypocritical ****.

 

[Darrell]

Again, there will always be examples of ‘what about’

Just to make this clear, I really do not like Khan but understand the need to phase out older, polluting vehicles and there will always be people upset about this change.

Grannies who can afford to shop in Cobham or drive through Richmond Park are probably not the hard done by ones who are living on the breadline.

Who knows? They could be.

You can buy a compliant vehicle for £1000 or just pay the £12.50 if it’s a very infrequent thing and when it comes to change your car likely it will factor in the replacement criteria.

Show us where you can find a decent, safe and reliable car for a grand.

Darrell - can your sister not buy a different convertible that is compliant? Or if she is only driving it infrequently then wait until she replaces it to do so?

Plenty of decent MB convertibles that are compliant, even much older CLK cabriolets

She can but why should she have to go through the aggro of doing this because Kahn needs the money. Like many people she is a busy working mum.

ULEZ in central London? Fine there’s plenty of decent reliable alternatives with buses and the underground.

ULEZ in the far reaches of the suburbs? No.

 

[Darrell]

“Clearly morally wrong” to many, but welcomed by many others. I’m more than happy for measures to be taken to rid our roads of cars that fill my children’s lungs with polutants.

Says the man from Hampshire to who this isn’t an issue.

 

[markjay]

...You can buy a compliant vehicle for £1000 or just pay the £12.50 if it’s a very infrequent thing and when it comes to change your car likely it will factor in the replacement criteria....

I think that there's another factor at play here.

There's a significant part of the population who became amoured with Diesel cars, due to the perception that these cars are very frugal, as can be evident from the various 'look at my mpg' threads on here (the issue of Diesel cars' suitability - or lack of - for people doing only short journeys has already been discussed, but that's a separate matter).

For these people, the only replacement for their old Diesel car is a newer Diesel car, which is why they consider ULEZ to be a hit on their finances. A move to a similarly-priced petrol car is seen as an unacceptable downgrade.

There's obviously those who can't find older petrol cars to suit their needs - van drivers in particular - but I think that there are also very many who would simply not consider petrol cars 'because they're expensive to run'.

 

[TC350]

Says the man from Hampshire to who this isn’t an issue.

Said this man who spent 40 years in London and moved out for better living conditions. Said this man who lost a close friend to an asthma attack in London when she was just 20. Said this man whose brother died from lung cancer. Yes, those deaths could have happened anywhere, but they happened to people born and raised in London with its polluted atmosphere.

We shouldn’t sit back and congratulate ourselves because there are no longer the ‘pea-soup’ smogs of the 50s and 60s - because bans were introduced on certain fuels being burnt in people’s homes. Were there cries of outrage that the fines for burning the wrong fuel were just there to raise money for the council? I’m sure that very many people struggled to change the way they heated their house, but they did it. The result was a clear success (pun intended.)

But things need to be improved further. I spent too many years commuting into central London. Seeing the black buildings everywhere made it painfully obvious how bad the pollution was. Seeing how black my handkerchief was after blowing my nose during a day in my London office was evidence enough.

The pollution forced me out of my home. I’m unable to have any sympathy with people being forced out of their old cars.

 

[Darrell]

Said this man who spent 40 years in London and moved out for better living conditions.

I live outside London because I like the greenery and the open spaces.

Said this man who lost a close friend to an asthma attack in London when she was just 20. Said this man whose brother died from lung cancer. Yes, those deaths could have happened anywhere, but they happened to people born and raised in London with its polluted atmosphere.

Were these down to the pollution? My brother suffers badly from asthma. He works in London and does the London Marathon every year.

We shouldn’t sit back and congratulate ourselves because there are no longer the ‘pea-soup’ smogs of the 50s and 60s - because bans were introduced on certain fuels being burnt in people’s homes. Were there cries of outrage that the fines for burning the wrong fuel were just there to raise money for the council? I’m sure that very many people struggled to change the way they heated their house, but they did it. The result was a clear success (pun intended.)

Was this at huge financial cost to the people?

But things need to be improved further. I spent too many years commuting into central London. Seeing the black buildings everywhere made it painfully obvious how bad the pollution was. Seeing how black my handkerchief was after blowing my nose during a day in my London office was evidence enough.

I cycle into central London on a daily basis. I’ve never had a black handkerchief.

The pollution forced me out of my home. I’m unable to have any sympathy with people being forced out of their old cars.

Where did you live in London?

As I’ve stated numerous times, I’ve got no problem with cleaning up the air. It’s the way it’s being implemented that galls me.

 

[TC350]

I live outside London because I like the greenery and the open spaces.

We’re these down to the pollution? My brother suffers badly from asthma. He works in London and does the London Marathon every year.

Was this at huge financial cost to the people?

I cycle into central London on a daily basis. I’ve never had a black handkerchief.

Where did you live in London?

I did say that pollution may or may not have been a contributing factor to those deaths. But I’m sure you’ll understand my concerns that it may have been.

Ive no idea of the costs involved in changing the methods to heat homes at that time. But I do know that the people who had been burning coal weren’t receiving any financial benefits by doing so - unlike the owners of diesel cars with better fuel consumption and lower VED. Knowing that they’re being compensated for polluting the atmosphere my family and I have to breath doesn’t endear me to them.

I was born and raised in Ealing, West London, then moved to Pinner in NW London. Pinner seemed less polluted than Ealing, but I can sense the pollution there when I go back to visit. Perhaps I’m over sensitive. Perhaps you’ve simply grown to ignore it. Just like I never noticed the busy railway line near my parents’ home, but visitors often commented on it.

 

[Darrell]

I did say that pollution may or may not have been a contributing factor to those deaths. But I’m sure you’ll understand my concerns that it may have been.

Ive no idea of the costs involved in changing the methods to heat homes at that time. But I do know that the people who had been burning coal weren’t receiving any financial benefits by doing so - unlike the owners of diesel cars with better fuel consumption and lower VED. Knowing that they’re being compensated for polluting the atmosphere my family and I have to breath doesn’t endear me to them.

I was born and raised in Ealing, West London, then moved to Pinner in NW London. Pinner seemed less polluted than Ealing, but I can sense the pollution there when I go back to visit. Perhaps I’m over sensitive. Perhaps you’ve simply grown to ignore it. Just like I never noticed the busy railway line near my parents’ home, but visitors often commented on it.

Ealing is a busy old place but Pinner is lovely. My old business partner and our company was based in Moss Lane and we were living in Eastcote.

 

[Will]

Who knows? They could be.

Show us where you can find a decent, safe and reliable car for a grand.

She can but why should she have to go through the aggro of doing this because Kahn needs the money. Like many people she is a busy working mum.

ULEZ in central London? Fine there’s plenty of decent reliable alternatives with buses and the underground.

ULEZ in the far reaches of the suburbs? No.

You can buy plenty of ULEZ compliant vehicles for not a lot of money. Bear in mind that whatever car currently in use will have some value also.

Just this weekend someone I know bought a 2-owner, 55k miler 1.2 hatchback with a year’s MOT for £1200. It’s a ‘52 plate Punto - nothing fancy but it’s clean as a whistle and drives really well and happens to be ULEZ compliant too. All used cars are pretty expensive these days but I guess £1200 is peanuts for a car really.

Your sister drives a luxury car - an E-class cabriolet. No issues there but clearly it would be a preference to keep it rather than an inability to change to a compliant vehicle? Even a year’s worth of charges would be less than the depreciation on a new one!

 

[Will]

I think that there's another factor at play here.

There's a significant part of the population who became amoured with Diesel cars, due to the perception that these cars are very frugal, as can be evident from the various 'look at my mpg' threads on here (the issue of Diesel cars' suitability - or lack of - for people doing only short journeys has already been discussed, but that's a separate matter).

For these people, the only replacement for their old Diesel car is a newer Diesel car, which is why they consider ULEZ to be a hit on their finances. A move to a similarly-priced petrol car is seen as an unacceptable downgrade.

There's obviously those who can't find older petrol cars to suit their needs - van drivers in particular - but I think that there are also very many who would simply not consider petrol cars 'because they're expensive to run'.

Yes there’s some good points there. Diesel cars have always been good for mpg but aside from the ULEZ debate many diesel cars out of warranty can be a headache and cost quite a lot to repair. That’s one of the main reasons I’ve never wanted to buy a diesel car myself.

But realistically how much money do people save in fuel costs? It’s not as much as most people think

A separate topic but regardless people can’t use their wish to save money on fuel costs as an excuse to pollute high levels of NOX and affect others.

Best way of saving money on fuel is to drive less. Always amazes me how many people I see driving their children to school when it’s a 10 minute walk, or driving to the local shop or whatever. Mostly that’s just laziness!

 

[markjay]

But realistically how much money do people save in fuel costs? It’s not as much as most people think

Some people look only at mpg, and ignore the fact the a Litre of Diesel is more expensive than a Litre of petrol by about 15%. And that's before taking into account the potential costly repairs.

 

[Will]

I do not agree. We have become very reliant on cars. I live just outside the m25 and the ulez, and could not be without a car.

The examples you gave didn’t cost anything. I commute into London everyday on a motorcycle and lucky for me my 2006 bike is ulez compliant. If it hadn’t been, I would have to replace it as the charge would have increased my committing costs by too much. That’s not right.

Khan is a hypocritical ****.

No one who currently uses a car needs to go without one, do they?

If you drive into the ULEZ daily just replace it with one that is compliant. It’s not a big deal.

If it makes you feel better I think one change I would have made to the ULEZ scheme would be a lower charge for motorbikes - surely most bikes even non compliant ones emit less NOX than the non compliant vans and cars do? Smaller cc and usually drive fewer miles PA too. But perhaps it’s kept the same for all as no doubt it would start another load of complaints from smaller car drivers vs. vans etc…

 

[Darrell]

You can buy plenty of ULEZ compliant vehicles for not a lot of money. Bear in mind that whatever car currently in use will have some value also.

Just this weekend someone I know bought a 2-owner, 55k miler 1.2 hatchback with a year’s MOT for £1200. It’s a ‘52 plate Punto - nothing fancy but it’s clean as a whistle and drives really well and happens to be ULEZ compliant too. All used cars are pretty expensive these days but I guess £1200 is peanuts for a car really.

Your sister drives a luxury car - an E-class cabriolet. No issues there but clearly it would be a preference to keep it rather than an inability to change to a compliant vehicle? Even a year’s worth of charges would be less than the depreciation on a new one!

This is part of the problem.

Too many people are just saying things like “you can just sell your car and buy a cheap one” or “you live in London therefore you can afford it”.

It’s all very simple to come out with statements like that for people who’ve got plenty of time on their hands this isn’t the case.

I’m now hearing of Police officers, Nurses, Teachers and the like who have recently paid their car loans off on their 12 or 13 plate diesels only to be told by wealthy people like Kahn to now go and buy a cheap petrol runabout or take out a new loan for a more recent car. As you can imagine they’re not happy.

 

[Will]

I don’t really understand the relevance of what their profession is or how they paid for their car?

It sounds like they can afford to run a car and they can no doubt afford a less polluting (ULEZ compliant) one too on the same basis. A 12 or 13 plate diesel Golf can easily be worth a few £k, I’m sure there will be other options out there - maybe they would have to drive a slightly different make or model but it’s not as thought they’ll be forced to give up driving?

 

[MikeInWimbledon]

Some people look only at mpg, and ignore the fact the a Litre of Diesel is more expensive than a Litre of petrol by about 15%. And that's before taking into account the potential costly repairs.

...."the costly long-term maintenance and repairs...."
Sorry, but I've been ranting about the hidden costs and pollution for two decades, ever since the EU and Gordon Brown pushed the diesel into European consumers hands through taxation...

Much in the same way that I'll be saying in twenty years time that EV's don't make much sense until all our electricity is "green," so that the marginal electricity coming out of any socket is no longer created by using fossil fuels....

 

[Darrell]

I don’t really understand the relevance of what their profession is or how they paid for their car?

It sounds like they can afford to run a car and they can no doubt afford a less polluting (ULEZ compliant) one too on the same basis. A 12 or 13 plate diesel Golf can easily be worth a few £k, I’m sure there will be other options out there - maybe they would have to drive a slightly different make or model but it’s not as thought they’ll be forced to give up driving?

Perhaps you should ask them. Do you know any teachers, Police or nurses that will be hit with the new charges?

Nobody is forcing them to give up driving. It’s all about the added expense, hassle and everything else that goes with it. This has been discussed earlier on in this thread.

 

[TC350]

Ealing is a busy old place but Pinner is lovely. My old business partner and our company was based in Moss Lane and we were living in Eastcote.

Parts of Ealing used to be lovely too, but sadly less so now. My last house in Pinner was near the top end of Moss Lane, which was certainly a very nice area. An acrimonious and very expensive divorce put an end to that I used my new found poverty as an excuse to get out of London - one of the better decisions of my life and admittedly a greater reason than escaping pollution! Escape to the countryside together with a new marriage and early retirement (at 50) from a highly stressful job left me a happy man. A new daughter is the icing on this wonderful cake.

 

[Will]

Perhaps you should ask them. Do you know any teachers, Police or nurses that will be hit with the new charges?

Nobody is forcing them to give up driving. It’s all about the added expense, hassle and everything else that goes with it. This has been discussed earlier on in this thread.

The expense is the reason the scheme is needed, otherwise the 12 and 13 plate diesel golf drivers won’t change their habits.

It’s like the sugar tax, people won’t listen otherwise it wouldn’t be needed. Complaining that coca-cola is more expensive for example does not mean that people can’t eat or drink.

I know plenty of nurses, and other people who will be affected in the sense that they either live or work within the current or expanded ULEZ. Ironically most of the noise I hear about the scheme is from people who won’t be affected and/or can clearly afford to drive a less polluting vehicle!

There will be something else to complain about in twelve months I am sure