Stop expanding the ULEZ to all the London boroughs in 2023

[Darrell]

I’m all right Jack , nice one Womble

Exactly. And I think that phrase has come up before on this thread.

 

[MikeInWimbledon]

I’m all right Jack , nice one Womble

No, I’m answering the question that Darrell posed and pointing out that twenty year old petrol cars aren’t affected.

Labour voters put Khan in charge and asked him to raise taxes in order to fund pressure group vote winners. It’s pure Ken Livingstone playbook and nothing to do with clean air

What else can he do to finance a public transport system that people don’t want to use post-Covid and post WfH ?

 

[MikeInWimbledon]

Mini, Range Rover and Bentley are German owned. Where do you think they’re going to be built?

It’s a global industry. Mercedes, BMW, Porsches and VW’s will always be built in Asia, Africa, the States and Eastern Europe.

No-one wants an EU Mercedes or BMW SUV. A BMW 3 series has to be made in South Africa. Thé EU is far too expensive a place to build a £40k BMW. And Germany is certainly no place to build an SUV.

If Mercedes thought it could make Rolls Royce’s in Germany, why didn’t it do so two decades ago when it bought the brand? Why didn’t the Maybach elbow RR aside ? (Is it because MB lost €350k on every Maybach they sold ?).

 

[Darrell]

What else can he do to finance a public transport system that people don’t want to use post-Covid and post WfH ?

Start by getting shot of the expensive dead wood that are sitting about doing sweet FA.

Run it like a business??

 

[Darrell]

If Mercedes thought it could make Rolls Royce’s in Germany, why didn’t it do so two decades ago?

No idea but it’ll happen.

In the most severe case of irony ever, Rolls Royce cars may now be made in Germany due to Brexit | JOE.ie

Yep, that most British of British cars may no longer be a British car...

www.joe.ie

 

[MikeInWimbledon]

Start by getting shot of the expensive dead wood that are sitting about doing sweet FA.
Run it like a business??

Unacceptable to a Socialist Mayor elected on a mandate of keeping people in jobs yet with easier conditions, a closed shop, increased salaries and unbelievable pensions.

 

[Darrell]

Unacceptable to a Socialist Mayor elected on a mandate of keeping people in jobs yet with easier conditions, a closed shop, increased salaries and unbelievable pensions.

I wonder what’s going to happen to workers in the oil and related industries.

 

[MikeInWimbledon]

I wonder what’s going to happen to workers in the oil and related industries.

I still can't work out where the drawing office staff, NCR girls, typists, telex operators, payroll clerks, hot metal printers, tape drive operators and post room staff went.

 

[Darrell]

I still can't work out where the drawing office staff, NCR girls, typists, telex operators, payroll clerks, hot metal printers, tape drive operators and post room staff went.

View attachment 141208

Cool photo. Any idea when it was taken?

 

[Will]

Of course it’s working. The issue is the way it’s implemented.

You’re in Surrey so will the ULEZ affect you?

No, ULEZ won’t affect me because my cars are compliant, not just because I live in Surrey. I drive within the current ULEZ almost every day at present anyway, and the expansion will come very close to me soon regardless.

I’ve owned about 50 cars over the years, but never had a dirty diesel. If I did I’d understand the need for change or if I drove infrequently would probably just pay the charge until change of vehicle was the more appropriate/appealing option.

My GL costs me £695 a year in tax because it emits a lot of CO2. I don’t do many miles in it compared to some, and it’s parked off road during the week. It’s not fair but it’s my choice to own/drive it.

Same as if I wanted to drive an old diesel car in London, they do more mpg and cost less to tax. £12.50 a day in ULEZ. Or buy a compliant car?

Not really a big issue, no one is forced to drive anyway. Plenty of people will be affected but everyone will get used to it soon enough.

There’s always something like this for people to get their knickers in a twist over - low wattage vacuum cleaners, old fashioned light bulbs, creosote, E10 fuel, smoking ban, brexit/covid or whatever. It’s got less to do with Kahn and more to do with inevitable change. Whoever was in charge would have to bring change at some point soon and there’s never a perfect way or time to do so IMHO

 

[markjay]

Mrs MJ's previous card was a 2010 Kia Soul II

I’m all right Jack , nice one Womble

Mrs MJ's previous card was a 2010 Kia Soul II 1.6 CDRi which wasn't ULEZ compliant.

In the run up to the introduction of the original ULEZ which was to start in April 2019, we were debating what to do. We had the Kia for a number of years and really liked it - small, rugged, reliable, cheap to run (it did London to Paris and back on a single tank), and the boxy rear was very useful on the IKEA run. We were debating whether to just pay the charge or replace our beloved Kia.

As luck would have it, in the very same month that ULEZ was introduced, some boy racer crashed into it while it was parked in the street and totalled it. We then bought a petrol car to replace it.

But at no point did I think that ULEZ was a bad idea just because our car got caught in it. And, similarly, I don't think I'm alright Jack just because I no longer has a non-ULEZ compliant car.

 

[MikeInWimbledon]

Cool photo. Any idea when it was taken?

Sadly I don't have a reliable credit but to my eyes it's certainly mid-1960's USA.

It has an IBM feel to it but could easily be aerospace or defense. (Tanned white men, white button down shirts, dark suits, narrow dark ties, short hair, no beards. And only one white sekkertry on the whole air conditioned floor)

 

[Darrell]

No, ULEZ won’t affect me because my cars are compliant, not just because I live in Surrey. I drive within the current ULEZ almost every day at present anyway, and the expansion will come very close to me soon regardless.

I’ve owned about 50 cars over the years, but never had a dirty diesel. If I did I’d understand the need for change or if I drove infrequently would probably just pay the charge until change of vehicle was the more appropriate/appealing option.

My GL costs me £695 a year in tax because it emits a lot of CO2. I don’t do many miles in it compared to some, and it’s parked off road during the week. It’s not fair but it’s my choice to own/drive it.

Same as if I wanted to drive an old diesel car in London, they do more mpg and cost less to tax. £12.50 a day in ULEZ. Or buy a compliant car?

Not really a big issue, no one is forced to drive anyway. Plenty of people will be affected but everyone will get used to it soon enough.

There’s always something like this for people to get their knickers in a twist over - low wattage vacuum cleaners, old fashioned light bulbs, creosote, E10 fuel, smoking ban, brexit/covid or whatever. It’s got less to do with Kahn and more to do with inevitable change. Whoever was in charge would have to bring change at some point soon and there’s never a perfect way or time to do so IMHO

My sister lives in Warlingham which fortunately is outside the zone.
Sadly though her 2 young daughters and her work are within the zone meaning she now has to sell her lovely low mileage E Class convertible. She’s not happy because she really hasn’t budgeted to buy a new car. But hey ho that’s how the dice rolls.

I do find your paragraph about people getting their knickers in a twist about inevitable change rather condescending. The examples you gave are all relatively trivial in comparison to buying a new car. Perhaps you don’t realise the hardships that many folks are facing simply because Kahn has ****ed up the TfL budget.

I’ve generally found that people are fine with change if they think it’s for the better and justifiable which doesn’t seem to be the case with the ULEZ extension. Did this happen with the original (which I think was a good idea) and the first extension (which I think was a bad idea).

 

[TC350]

So you’ve got no problem with the extended ULEZ because your cars are compliant?

I have no problem with the extended ULEZ for two reasons: my car is compliant and I have no need to visit ULEZ areas on a regular basis. Would I be angrily ranting if the compliance changed and put my car into the paying category and/or I needed to to drive into an ULEZ area regularly? No, I wouldn’t.

I’ve spent most of my life knowing that there will be times when I have to pay for things I want or need, when previously I haven’t had to pay. Things change. Just today I had to pay to park my car in a place that previously had been free, so I could watch my daughter perform at a concert. I had a choice: pay for the car park and enjoy the open air show (which I did) , or express my objection to the new charges by not going.

Things change. We can let those changes upset us, or we can get on with our lives the best we can by adapting as and where necessary.

 

[Darrell]

Both my cars and motorbike are ULEZ compliant and I don’t think the extension will affect me directly but…..

 

[ALFAitalia]

I have no problem with the extended ULEZ for two reasons: my car is compliant and I have no need to visit ULEZ areas on a regular basis. Would I be angrily ranting if the compliance changed and put my car into the paying category and/or I needed to to drive into an ULEZ area regularly? No, I wouldn’t.

I’ve spent most of my life knowing that there will be times when I have to pay for things I want or need, when previously I haven’t had to pay. Things change. Just today I had to pay to park my car in a place that previously had been free, so I could watch my daughter perform at a concert. I had a choice: pay for the car park and enjoy the open air show (which I did) , or express my objection to the new charges by not going.

Things change. We can let those changes upset us, or we can get on with our lives the best we can by adapting as and where necessary.

Or you could fight things that are clearly morally wrong rather than excepting it and going along with it all sheep like....remember the poll tax riots. ULEZ riots next?

 

[MikeInWimbledon]

Or you could fight things that are clearly morally wrong rather than excepting it and going along with it all sheep like....remember the poll tax riots. ULEZ riots next?

What’s “morally wrong” about charging people to pay a fee if they choose to drive “dirtier” vehicles in a congested city as an excuse to raise a few hundred million to subsidise vote winning projects that will help a Mayor win re-election?

In Europe they just tax property ownership and usage more heavily, so everyone picks up the bill. And ban dirtier vehicles all the time, or at certain “high pollution times” of the year. (See the Crit Air certificates in France). Both these tactics would harm working class voters more than Khan’s “morally wrong” tactics.

 

[TC350]

Or you could fight things that are clearly morally wrong rather than excepting it and going along with it all sheep like....remember the poll tax riots. ULEZ riots next?

“Clearly morally wrong” to many, but welcomed by many others. I’m more than happy for measures to be taken to rid our roads of cars that fill my children’s lungs with polutants.

 

[MikeInWimbledon]

“Clearly morally wrong” to many, but welcomed by many others. I’m more than happy for measures to be taken to rid our roads of cars that fill my children’s lungs with polutants.

But it’s obviously not about “children’s lungs.” It’s an excuse to raise tax income. The air around us is already dramatically cleaner than it was a decade ago or when you were a child.

If we actually wanted to reduce the pollution in children’s lungs we’d ban parents from driving kids to school, or actually do something about known city pollution hotspots such as the Marylebone Road rather than taxing grannies for driving two miles across Richmond park, or from their homes to the shops in Cobham at times of day when traffic and congestion is quiet.

It’s greenwashed taxation.

 

[Will]

Again, there will always be examples of ‘what about’

Just to make this clear, I really do not like Khan but understand the need to phase out older, polluting vehicles and there will always be people upset about this change.

Grannies who can afford to shop in Cobham or drive through Richmond Park are probably not the hard done by ones who are living on the breadline.

You can buy a compliant vehicle for £1000 or just pay the £12.50 if it’s a very infrequent thing and when it comes to change your car likely it will factor in the replacement criteria.

Darrell - can your sister not buy a different convertible that is compliant? Or if she is only driving it infrequently then wait until she replaces it to do so?

Plenty of decent MB convertibles that are compliant, even much older CLK cabriolets