Stop expanding the ULEZ to all the London boroughs in 2023

[markjay]

Regardless of whether further growth is sustainable or not, prior to the enforced pandemic drop it accounted for between 7 and 8 times the number of passenger kilometres as railways, and around 20 times that of buses & coaches.

There has to be some realism here: you cannot eliminate that volume of movement without crippling the economy.

But the economy is already crippled by the gridlock....:

Traffic jams cost the UK £6.9bn last year | Auto Express

The UK economy lost £6.9bn because of congestion in 2019, with drivers in London spending an average of 149 hours stuck in traffic

www.autoexpress.co.uk

Surely something has to change.

 

[KennyN]

But the economy is already crippled by the gridlock....:

Traffic jams cost the UK £6.9bn last year | Auto Express

The UK economy lost £6.9bn because of congestion in 2019, with drivers in London spending an average of 149 hours stuck in traffic

www.autoexpress.co.uk

Surely something has to change.

Certainly within London which has probably the best travel infrastructure in the UK , no real need to own a car with the tube / bus / Zip Car / Uber / taxis facilities that you guys have down there.

K

 

[st13phil]

But the economy is already crippled by the gridlock...

The odd thing about traffic congestion is that, despite what some would have us believe, it’s actually self-limiting. People won’t sit in jams unless there is an overall benefit to doing so.

 

[markjay]

The odd thing about traffic congestion is that, despite what some would have us believe, it’s actually self-limiting. People won’t sit in jams unless there is an overall benefit to doing so.

Up to around 10 years ago, I used to drive regularly from London to Gillingham in Kent. My route took me through the Blackwall tunnel going south, at around 8am. The Blackwall tunnel is in fact two separate tunnels, each one with two lanes, and at the time they uses to change the direction of traffic in one of the lanes during the morning rush hour, so that there were three lanes crossing under the Thames going north into London, and one lane going south. On emerging from the tunnel on the south bank of the river (near the Millennium Dome), there was always a very long queue in the opposite direction, stretching for a few good miles, of cars waiting to enter the tunnel going into London. Luckily for me, I was always travelling in the opposite direction of traffic, I.e. going out of London in the morning and then into London in the evening, but I always felt sorry for the poor sods who had to travel into London every morning.

 

[Darrell]

Up to around 10 years ago, I used to drive regularly from London to Gillingham in Kent. My route took me through the Blackwall tunnel going south, at around 8am. The Blackwall tunnel is in fact two separate tunnels, each one with two lanes, and at the time they uses to change the direction of traffic in one of the lanes during the morning rush hour, so that there were three lanes crossing under the Thames going north into London, and one lane going south. On emerging from the tunnel on the south bank of the river (near the Millennium Dome), there was always a very long queue in the opposite direction, stretching for a few good miles, of cars waiting to enter the tunnel going into London. Luckily for me, I was always travelling in the opposite direction of traffic, I.e. going out of London in the morning and then into London in the evening, but I always felt sorry for the poor sods who had to travel into London every morning.

I did the same many moons ago.
We did a new lead roof on the Bodleian Library in Oxford and I was driving out of London from Hanger Lane at 7 in the morning. It was a lovely drive.

 

[Darrell]

Joint statement from Hillingdon, Harrow, Bexley and Croydon councils on ULEZ expansion - Hillingdon Council

Following today's (Friday 25 November) announcement by the Mayor of London that the Ultra Low Emission Zone (ULEZ) will be expanded London-wide from August 2023, Hillingdon, Harrow, Bexley and Croydon councils have announced their resolve to work with other outer London boroughs to resist its...

www.hillingdon.gov.uk

 

[W1ghty]

Joint statement from Hillingdon, Harrow, Bexley and Croydon councils on ULEZ expansion - Hillingdon Council

Following today's (Friday 25 November) announcement by the Mayor of London that the Ultra Low Emission Zone (ULEZ) will be expanded London-wide from August 2023, Hillingdon, Harrow, Bexley and Croydon councils have announced their resolve to work with other outer London boroughs to resist its...

www.hillingdon.gov.uk

I like the sound of that .

 

[TeddyRuxpin]

I do not want to enter too much into politics on here, but that's pretty much expected from the Conservative lead councils mentioned there that are very much in the minority in London. Surprised Bromley didn't join them. I doubt it will have much impact. You'd need some of the red councils to speak up against it for not to look like political gesturing, too.

 

[markjay]

I do not want to enter too much into politics on here, but that's pretty much expected from the Conservative lead councils mentioned there that are very much in the minority in London. Surprised Bromley didn't join them. I doubt it will have much impact. You'd need some of the red councils to speak up against it for not to look like political gesturing, too.

There may certainly be political reasons for these particular Councils' objection to having ULEZ, but similar CAZ schemes are being implemented all over the UK's major cities, so it seems that the issue overall isn't a purely political one.

 

[MikeInWimbledon]

There may certainly be political reasons for these particular Councils' objection to having ULEZ, but similar CAZ schemes are being implemented all over the UK's major cities, so it seems that the issue overall isn't a purely political one.

Yes, it's purely an income generating issue. It's the simplest way of generating millions locally that's (currently) unlikely to be pulled into Central Government. (Currently over £100 million for Mayor Khan, but targeted to be several hundred million when the zone is expanded)

It's not about pollution, or gridlock, both of which could be resolved by local government rerouting traffic flows, changing the housing planning laws, and issuing clearer information about living in high pollution areas.

To be fair, Mayor Khan's £100 million has been very useful in subsidising the usually empty buses on London's streets these last two years)

 

[markjay]

...To be fair, Mayor Khan's £100 million has been very useful in subsidising the usually empty buses on London's streets these last two years)

Gridlocked traffic and empty buses... what are we getting wrong in London, then?

 

[Darrell]

Gridlocked traffic and empty buses... what are we getting wrong in London, then?

Perhaps the buses are slow, uncomfortable and don’t go to where the customers want to go.

 

[markjay]

Perhaps the buses are slow, uncomfortable and don’t go to where the customers want to go.

Or perhpas the experience of the slow and expensive car journey is still not sufficiently painful in comparison?

 

[guhvies]

I do not want to enter too much into politics on here, but that's pretty much expected from the Conservative lead councils mentioned there that are very much in the minority in London. Surprised Bromley didn't join them. I doubt it will have much impact. You'd need some of the red councils to speak up against it for not to look like political gesturing, too.

To be fair, the part of Bromley I'm in has buses, trains and trams. I use the trains to get to work and the buses when I'm too lazy to walk from
the station home. It's 2 stops, though I can get off at the first stop and walk home and get home earlier than if I get off at the second stop. In
my defense it is a steep up hill walk from the station...

 

[Darrell]

Or perhpas the experience of the slow and expensive car journey is still not sufficiently painful in comparison?

Expensive??

 

[SW18]

Have you been on a bus in London during rush-hour recently?

Have you been in a car in London during rush hour recently? Traffic goes nowhere fast, regardless of the vehicle you're in. Cycling on the other hand works well, for those able / willing (I know you're one of them!).

 

[Darrell]

Have you been in a car in London during rush hour recently? Traffic goes nowhere fast, regardless of the vehicle you're in. Cycling on the other hand works well, for those able / willing (I know you're one of them!).

Given the choice of bus or car I rather be in the car. And don’t answer a question with a question.

 

[markjay]

Expensive??

Congestion Charge, ULEZ charge, parking fees, petrol/Diesel costs, and the occasional speeding fine for driving 21mph in a 20mph zone (tick all that apply).

 

[MikeInWimbledon]

Gridlocked traffic and empty buses... what are we getting wrong in London, then?

If you say so. Living in London, I can’t remember being on a gridlocked London road these last three years.

The empty buses are straightforward: they’re run when people don’t need to travel.

Virtually every London bus route still follows the routes followed by trams and horse drawn omnibuses nearly a century ago. And of course the faster buses to the Suburbs were dumped some time ago.

 

[markjay]

If you say so. Living in London, I can’t remember being on a gridlocked London road these last three years.

The empty buses are straightforward: they’re run when people don’t need to travel.

Virtually every London bus route still follows the routes followed by trams and horse drawn omnibuses nearly a century ago. And of course the faster buses to the Suburbs were dumped some time ago.

My car journey to the office via Marylebone Road takes me 45 minutes.

Travelling on the underground and overground takes 30 minutes door-to-door (the new Eluzabeth Line is fantastic). And it's free as I am over 60.

In the car I am alone, and listening to radio or music. On the tube I am surrounded by coughing people who were no face covering.

Horses for courses. I take the tube most days, and usually take the car only when I have some bulky stuff to carry.

But I'm guessing that many people still use the car simply because it's more convenient, and still affordable for them.