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Stunning New Diesels From Mb

hawk20

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ML250 BlueTEC Sport Jan 2013
STUNNING NEW DIESELS FROM MB
For some while there have been grumbles on this forum about MB diesels no longer being the pinnacle of economy. BMW in particular have made major improvements to their fuel economy since last autumn. Below I summarise, from various sources, what is coming from MB.

A brand new, some say revolutionary, new diesel engine will arrive Autumn 2008, initially in the C class. It will have twin turbos and will offer both a lot more power and use a lot less fuel. It will provide significant reductions in CO2 emissions. The new engine has been under intensive development for over 48 months. According to MB, the prototype was ready in 2005 but since then it has undergone 100,000 hours on the test rig in order to achieve optimum performance characteristics under all conditions. Over a distance of ten million test kilometres in a variety of vehicles, the engine has been proved from desert heat to the cold of the polar regions, withstanding dust, mud, water and the very harshest treatment in the process.
The new engine is launched in autumn 2008, when the first variant will be launched in just the C-Class initially. The power unit is due to be deployed in various model series from Mercedes-Benz, returning outstanding fuel consumption figures in all cases. It can be installed both lengthways and crossways and is envisaged for all-wheel-drive vehicles too. Naturally, the new engine can be supplemented by the cutting-edge BlueTec emissions control system developed by Mercedes-Benz, and it is also earmarked for use as a fuel-efficient internal combustion engine in hybrid vehicles.
Mercedes say that the new power unit from the Untertürkheim plant really does charter territory from which diesel engines - and four-cylinder units particularly so - have previously been excluded. It redefines standards for power output and torque on the one hand and for fuel consumption and exhaust emissions on the other, setting benchmark figures which no other comparable series-production engine is able to match at the current time.
In its most powerful variant, the new four-cylinder unit musters up 150 kW/204 hp from its 2143 cubic centimetres, meaning that it delivers around 20 per cent more power than the engine it replaces. At the same time, peak torque has risen from 400 Nm to 500 Nm, equating to an increase of 25 per cent. Despite the 25 kW increase in output, the new four-cylinder diesel burns substantially less fuel than its predecessor, which was itself highly economical. As a consequence, CO2 emissions are reduced by as much as 13 per cent and the new four-cylinder diesel unit already complies with the future EU5 emissions standard.
When fitted in the C-Class, the new 150-kW unit burns just 5.4 litres of diesel per 100 kilometres (NEDC), 0.5 litres less than previously. That’s about 52 mpg combined figure (same as my diesel A class). And when powered by the 125-kW/170-hp variant that is also newly available, the C‑Class returns even lower fuel figures of 5.1 litres for every 100 kilometres (a drop of 0.8 litres). That is about 55mpg combined. As a consequence, CO2 emissions are reduced by 8 and 13 per cent respectively to 143 and 136 g/km. The Mercedes-Benz engineers have also succeeded in further reducing the amount of untreated engine emissions. Even without an active denoxification process, the new four-cylinder diesel already meets the future EU5 emissions standard.
“This takes our new four-cylinder unit into a realm which has so far been the preserve of three-litre six-cylinder diesel or large V8 petrol engines - all combined with exemplary fuel economy,” commented Dr. Thomas Weber, who is responsible for Group Research and Development at Mercedes-Benz Cars on the Daimler AG Board of Management.

Or to put it another way, this engine in the new C class will deliver similar performance to the S class 320cdi, but with emissions and economy levels equal to the current diesel A class models!
My A180cdi emits 147 gms/km of CO2. The new C class diesel will emit between 136 and 143 gms/km thus giving a good saving on VED as well as on fuel.

For more info see: -
http://benzinsider.com
http://www.worldcarfans.com/9080410.007/new-mercedes-4-cylinder-diesel-engine
 
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Thank you for that very interesting post Hawk,, things are moving fast now
Yes. I agree. And more to come in other sizes I guess. You don't fancy summarising the technical advances involved with this engine for those of us less technically literate do you?
 
It's a big step forward but not enough really. For example, it does 5.4l/100km. My 55 does ~11-12l/100km (~9km/l), roughly double the consumption.

So if I do 25000km/year, or around say 3000 odd litres of fuel per year, this new engine would do the same distance in 1500 litres (or thereabouts).

Price saving: ~€1800/year. At a cost of whatever it will new, most likely a €40-50k price point here, it would be 15-25 years before making the cost back in fuel consumption.

This type of diesel engine is probably going to have a big impact on people who lease cars regularly or change up with having a constant finance package every 2-3 years, or in business world with expenses - I don't see it as a useful thing to a private buyer.
 
The figures look very good and are in line with our expectations of a major manufacturer like Mercedes.
I was in a new C220 yesterday prior to getting back in my S class. The biggest difference to me was the refinement of the two cars. (No real surprise I suppose) If the new generation of 4 cylinder engines take a major step forward in that area, them I for one with be in the queue to sample these products.:)
 
They cannot afford to get this one wrong, hence the development time.

The big jump was to get, before 2009, a EU5 compliant diesel that would be a base unit that was viable across a wide range of vehicles. That has been done it seems, although got to say I have a niggle that twin turbos and increased amount of plumbing/control gear on these engines mean they might not be a sound long term hold. In fact the simple joy of normal aspiration in an efficient petrol engine seems much more appealing in that regard.

Anyway, EU5 means that the particulates emitted by diesels and petrols will be exactly the same. So no need for taxation differentials on such vehicles and the devils own fuel then.:rolleyes:
 
Hopefully it will be more reliable than the latest larger diesels being offeried by BMW!

John
 
It's a big step forward but not enough really. For example, it does 5.4l/100km. My 55 does ~11-12l/100km (~9km/l), roughly double the consumption.

So if I do 25000km/year, or around say 3000 odd litres of fuel per year, this new engine would do the same distance in 1500 litres (or thereabouts).

Price saving: ~€1800/year. At a cost of whatever it will new, most likely a €40-50k price point here, it would be 15-25 years before making the cost back in fuel consumption.

This type of diesel engine is probably going to have a big impact on people who lease cars regularly or change up with having a constant finance package every 2-3 years, or in business world with expenses - I don't see it as a useful thing to a private buyer.

It is probably unfair to expect any conceivable level of economy in a new engine to cover the costs of changing form an older car to a new one. The purpose of the engine is to make new MB cars fully competitive with others, so that those buying new will gain by choosing MB. In addition it helps MB to meet EU5. And it helps meet the required drop in average emissions that Europe requires by 2012.

But for all of us, when we come to change, it is nice to know that engines doing really good mpg will be available.
 
But for all of us, when we come to change, it is nice to know that engines doing really good mpg will be available.

Its a bit early to speculate on these engines, I would like to see the results of any test drives when they become available. A smallish V6 would be nice just for the smoothness. Is the V8d coming in the new E? There are some recalls in the USA on the Blue tec engines.

http://www.channel4.com/4car/news/news-story.jsp?news_id=17335 (new engine)

gary
 
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Imagine..using that technology on the 320cdi V6.....droooool:D + Bluetec..
 
It is probably unfair to expect any conceivable level of economy in a new engine to cover the costs of changing form an older car to a new one.
Taxation increases on higher emission cars will help make the case though, although they will only further destroy the values of older "gas guzzlers".

Some countries pay a subsidy for drivers to dump their old cars and switch to lower emission models.
 
fuel consumption is interesting but it is depreciation that is the big killer.....just done some figs on my wife's car -- the cost of buying a new honda cr-v diesel v petrol.....takes nearly 80,000 miles to make up the difference on fuel alone.....
 
This is good news.

Just a question for the techically minded, the torque curve looks a bit ropey on this engine, peaking at low revs and quite rapidly decreasing at higher revs.

How does this compare to the current engines? would one notice this in practice?
 
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Just a question for the techically minded, the torque curve looks a bit ropey on this engine, peaking at low revs and quite rapidly decreasing at higher revs.

Looks like there will be an on/off switch rather than a pedal!! Very peaky, for a turbocharged engine.
 
fuel consumption is interesting but it is depreciation that is the big killer.....just done some figs on my wife's car -- the cost of buying a new honda cr-v diesel v petrol.....takes nearly 80,000 miles to make up the difference on fuel alone.....

I think you are way out on this one. The petrol CRV (SE model) is about £19k and does 34.9 mpg. The diesel is about £20.3k and does 43.5 mpg. The extra cost of the diesel would be paid for very quickly, and it would have a higher residual.

And with MB the diesels are no dearer than the petrols for many models.

If you mean the cost of changing to a new car from a much older car cannot be paid for by fuel economy alone, well, of course not. But when someone gets to the point of changing, it is good to have the option of amazing economy and still have performance. In the autumn the C class with this new engine will offer S class performance with A class economy and A class levels of VED. Can't be bad.
 
I think you are way out on this one. The petrol CRV (SE model) is about £19k and does 34.9 mpg. The diesel is about £20.3k and does 43.5 mpg. The extra cost of the diesel would be paid for very quickly, and it would have a higher residual.

.

Excluding residuals..... petrol @£1.06 - diesel @ £1.16 then I'm sorry the breakeven is 70,000 miles

Petrol CR-v £23790 same model in diesel £25090 so yes same £1300 difference.

using 34 mpg petrol 43 mpg diesel .................

70,000 miles petrol = 9170 litres @ £1.06 = £9720
70,000 mile diesel = 7250 litres @ £1.16 = £8410

difference = £1300 break even on intitial cost..

I accept the residuals on diesels are higher - the roadtax on petrol is higher but the servicing costs on diesels are higher too...

All I was trying to say was that too many people get lulled into buying diesels on the grounds of better fuel consumption whereas for SOME this isnt relevant if they are not driving high mileages....

PS.. I drive a diesel...lol:)


pps - if you want the spreadsheet to play with - PM me your email and i'll send it to you
 

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