Suspension Ball Joints...

[Spinal]

Right... Not sure where this goes, but as its a suspension issue (I think) I'll put it here. Just came back from the MOT station; wasn't too pleased.

While I waited (too long) 2 cars went through, and they both failed. Third time lucky? Not a chance. My lovely gal failed her MOT for the first time!

-Offside front side repeater incorrect colour (hmm, it looks orange to me! He says the paint is peeling on the bulb and as such blinks white, but its looks VERY orange too me... I'll replace the bulb anyhow, just to be sure)

-Offside front headlamp aim too low [1.6] (hmm, I thought they would correct this on the spot...)

-Offside/Nearside front suspension joint has excessive movement at a suspension ball joint. [2.5.A.1c]

Now this one I've NEVER heard of. Any idea what it means? He said (without me asking actually) that for £250 he would do all the above, and when I asked for £180 the 2 suspension things. Now, leaving aside that £70 seems a little "high" to change a bulb and turn a screw; does anyone know WHAT they mean by the suspension ball joints having excessive movement? And how much would I be expecting to pay to correct/replace this?

Ideally, I'de get this done within 10 working days (hence, 2 weeks) so that I can get it retested without paying the full £50... But, knowing how I can never seem to get things repaired fast...

Michele

 

[Parrot of Doom]

Basically, if you jack that wheel up and grab it, then try to push it up/down side/side, it will move slightly (I don't mean it will rotate). Thats a worn ball joint.

Ball joints is a DIY job, I've not done it myself but plenty of people here will have.

 

[willy]

prices quoted sounds a bit excess, as I got both ball joints changed for around £100 by my mechanic when my ball joints went.

 

[grober]

2 Per Side

There are 2 ball joints on the front suspension steering knuckle. see http://www.detali.ru/cat/oem_mb2.as...417717.418&CT=F&cat=44V&SID=33&SGR=030&SGN=01
they are 59 and 8 on the diagram. I expect he means 8 on both sides. They are vital components in the front suspension. They dont cost much but renewing them involves partly dismantling the front suspension. This is NOT a job for the inexperienced DIY owner!!!!!! Get them done by a reputable professional IMHO.

 

[grasmere]

He said (without me asking actually) that for £250 he would do all the above,

thats why I have my 96 202 tested by the local borough council test station. They have no vested interest in 'finding' faults. They have tested both our cars for 3 years and have been very friendly - in fact apologetic when my wifes KA had an 'advisory' (in October) for the front suspension mount bushes (which I changed myself yesterday anyway.

 

[Ian B Walker]

Knuckles cost about £23 each from Mb, less if you use a motor factor. As grober says, leave alone as you will need to support the suspension coil spring. An indi would charge you for the pair about £150 supplied and fitted.

 

[Spinal]

Perfect, thanks for the help! Tomorrow I'm popping by my local mecchanic and hoping hes still around (he retired a few months ago and was planning to move to Spain... fingers crossed he can recommend someone!)

EDIT: Armed with a little more knowledge, I found this:
http://www.popularmechanics.com/how_to_central/automotive/1888732.html
Quite a good article, really emphasized the "Don't Touch" sign that was appearing in my head (I LOVE to tinker... I tinker with everything...)
Michele

 

[big x]

thats why I have my 96 202 tested by the local borough council test station. They have no vested interest in 'finding' faults. They have tested both our cars for 3 years and have been very friendly - in fact apologetic when my wifes KA had an 'advisory' (in October) for the front suspension mount bushes (which I changed myself yesterday anyway.

Exactly,use an MOT place with no repair facilities or do as I do find a bike dealer who also does car MOT's.They tend to be a bit more trustworthy IMO.
Plenty of places offer free re-tests.

adam

 

[Spinal]

I'll try that; any idea how I decide if an MOT place is "trustworthy"? There is mb-heathrow which does MOT, but they do it offsite.

Do I just call and ask them if they repair the car if it fails? (I'de think all would do that, no?)
Michele

 

[grasmere]

Do I just call and ask them if they repair the car if it fails?

of course, something like "if you find anything that needs doing are you able to quote me and do the repairs?"

As I mentioned, check your local council and speak to their own MOT testers - they definitley wont do repairs, just a test.

 

[ADY1983]

Well thats what mine failed on, a worn lower balljoint, because I had changed the arms and suspension for the sportline stuff I had to buy the whole arm just cost me £220 for the part only. Thats after waiting a week while I had 2 sent from a local factors that got it wrong twice . They dont get Sportline, its a mercedes 300 series But finally spoke to someone in Exeter main dealer, who knew what I needed...

 

[Spinal]

Other than the (very) annoying issue of my internet being down the last 24 hours, I have an update and a question. First the question...

If the balljoints are indeed worn, is it ABSOLUTELY certain that the wheels will move when the car is jacked up?

Now the update, yesterday I jacked the car up, I raised it high enough that I could get under it and placed it oneaxle stands from the rubber pads. I then firmly grabbed the offside wheel and tried moving it up, down, left or right; it didn't seem to move, but it was turning the steering wheel. So I lowered one side of the car as to stop the steering wheel from turning, and retried. The wheel refused to move in any direction other than rotating on its axis.

This leads me to believe that the ball joints are working... right?

Secondly, if the ball joints do work as I suspect, would you go back to the same garage, ask him to re-inspect the car (still within the 10 working days), and if he fails it again ask for an appeal form? (and if he passes it, ask him why he passed it now that no work was carried out on the suspensions?).. or would you do what everyone else seems to recommend I do and just goto this other garage which my father has been using for years and trusts? (Hence avoiding any confrontation?)

Personally, I would appeal, get the mot done by the other garage, and then stand in front of the "annoying" garage and try to convince his customers not to go there... Now I know this isn't the "best" thing to do, nor probably the most legal... its just that...

Cup of coffee in one hand and unreal tournament in the other... :evilgrin:

Michele

 

[Dieselman]

The wheel should lift if the balljoints are gone.

Why not go back to the original garage and explain that you can't replicate the problem and can they please demonstrate the problem to you.

 

[kth286]

A prybar would normally be used to check ball joints, otherwise very difficult to replicate the problem.

The problem could be of two sorts:

1. very loose ball joint

2 very tight (almost seized ball joint)

They are certainly critical to safety and you need to get them done pronto.

 

[Spinal]

Ok, just got back from the mecchanic (well, got back an hour ago, I spent some time cleaning the car ). The car just flew through its MOT!

Only issue was the headlights which were aligned a little low, but they turned a screw and did that without even me asking! Perfect!

I asked them to give special attention to the suspensions and ball joints. They are in perfect condition! :bannana:

I took the opportunity to get a quote for my insurance company to get the bodywork done, and had a chat with one of the apprentices in the shop. A very interesting young fellow, who said "I'm well suprised that you still got your badge" (sorry, thats as well as I can do that accent...). He mentioned he was surprised that people stole them and that you cant really "fit it" to another car once stolen. After a quick chat, he confessed he had 30 or so of them in his bedroom! (if my car goes for repairs there, thats one pieces I'm keeping at home! )

Anyhow, I was really happy with this garage (which my father has been using since he used too export cars). They even wear white cotton gloves when working on your car!

After all this, the mixture of anger at the old garage and happyness at my car being given a clean bill of health leads me to want to name 'n' shame the first garage... may I? (or would that be against the forum rules?)

I'll name and shame them, if its against the rules, I'll edit this out:

H.V.S
1, Lees Parade, Uxbridge Rd, Hillingdon, Uxbridge, Middlesex UB8 3AS

Michele

 

[Dieselman]

Nice to hear of your good experence Spinal.

You should report the first garage to VOSA. They are obviously trying to drum up work. This isn't allowed under VOSA guidelines.

The tester will say that on the day he felt they were a fail item, however a week later and with no work done they are not, Hmm interesting.

At the very least you want your original fee refunded.

 

[bolide]

I'd go back there with the pass certificate and the car and ask the tester to book it in to put it on the ramp and show you the problem. If he won't, draw your own conclusion

If he does put it on the ramp whatever happens you will learn

Don't turn up and expect him to put it on the ramp then and there. The new MOT system requires bookings as the start & end of each MOT is logged

MOT testers are not infallible and not incorruptible but most, in my experience, are experts and do care about safety - which is why they're there


Nick Froome
www.w124.co.uk

 

[Dieselman]

Don't turn up and expect him to put it on the ramp then and there. The new MOT system requires bookings as the start & end of each MOT is logged

MOT testers are not infallible and not incorruptible but most, in my experience, are experts and do care about safety - which is why they're there

he isn't going for an MOT just an inspection not under the scope of an MOT test as he already has one. No booking required.

Although testers are there to check for safety items when a garage needs extra work they are not infallible.

 

[GazCaff]

Knuckles cost about £23 each from Mb, less if you use a motor factor. As grober says, leave alone as you will need to support the suspension coil spring. An indi would charge you for the pair about £150 supplied and fitted.

And maybe a few quid for angle grinder discs and over-torqued alan head sockets!

 

[Ian B Walker]

And maybe a few quid for angle grinder discs and over-torqued alan head sockets!

You have a certain (painfull )way with words