Suspension of parking notices

[Ade B]

Parked my bike in a bay on Glasshouse Street this afternoon, have meetings, come back to bike bay - penalty notice

Speak with another bike owner with the same, it turns out the lamp post two car lengths down from the bay has suspension of parking notices on it. The lower of the two notices (at waist level) makes no reference to the bike bay but to the car spaces, the higher notice (at about 10 feet above pavement) includes the bike bay.

I didn't see either this afternoon as it was away from the bay itself, I just saw a space (unusual in itself for this bay) and parked the bike and along with a load of other bikers got a ticket.

I'm going to appeal with photos etc. but from previous experience Westminster will just insist that there was a displayed notice and I had no right to park there....

Any thoughts.

Ade

 

[robert.saunders]

On first thoughts I don't think you'll be on to a winner; suspension of bays is always fraught. Unless you can prove a procedural error* I don't have much help to offer you I'm afraid.

* In which case, you may consider a hearing at PATAS

 

[ibrar]

Be a man......do the right thing:bannana:

 

[MBManInKen]

Be a man......do the right thing:bannana:

 

[ibrar]

however you interpret it

 

[ibrar]

also its a quote from russel peters (stand up comedian)

 

[MBManInKen]

however you interpret it

So, what is "right" depends on interpretation?

 

[Parrot of Doom]

Be a man......do the right thing:bannana:

Yes. Go to www.pepipoo.com and ask there. Thats the right thing.

 

[Kamisuma]

Parked my bike in a bay on Glasshouse Street this afternoon, have meetings, come back to bike bay - penalty notice

Speak with another bike owner with the same, it turns out the lamp post two car lengths down from the bay has suspension of parking notices on it. The lower of the two notices (at waist level) makes no reference to the bike bay but to the car spaces, the higher notice (at about 10 feet above pavement) includes the bike bay.

I didn't see either this afternoon as it was away from the bay itself, I just saw a space (unusual in itself for this bay) and parked the bike and along with a load of other bikers got a ticket.

I'm going to appeal with photos etc. but from previous experience Westminster will just insist that there was a displayed notice and I had no right to park there....

Any thoughts.

Ade

If it really was at a height at which it could not BE REASONABLY EXPECTED TO BE SEEN FROM THE PAVEMENT AND READ BY SOMEONE STANDING THERE, then I would have thought that you do have a legitimate case.
There is a statutory requirement for the council to take reasonable steps to make sure that such notices can be easily seen.

If you can read it from the pavement, then you have to pay the fine.

If you cannot read it, then make sure that you get pictures, showing someone standing in proximity to the notice, and make sure that you get statements from independant people indicating that it could not be read by them from that position. Send copies with your appeal, and be willing to go to court if you have to.

 

[Ade B]

I've a sneaky feeling that the notice may have been moved by a peed off biker as it was at a 'jaunty' angle as well as being rather high.

The point I'm going to try to argue is that the notice was some way from the bike bay which is on the corner of Glasshouse Street and Air Street, it seems rather unreasonable that before I park I am expected to check the entire street to see if there are any suspension notices.

The fact that the bay was almost full of bikes (not all with tickets) at the time I was there suggests that the notice was far from conspicuous. Entrapment anyone?

Westminster have an extraordinarily aggressive parking policy, I've seen bikes with part of a tyre projecting beyond the line of a bike bay get a ticket in the past.

I've had tickets before when I've been caught where I shouldn't have been, but I do feel hard done by in this instance. The irony being I normally park the bike 'soho style' where it shouldn't be and this time I thought - great, a space in a parking bay....


Ade

 

[robert.saunders]

When Westminster place the suspension they will take photographs too, be aware of that.

And forget all this court nonsense as posted above, it doesn't exist on a PCN

 

[robert.saunders]

This information below is a little dated from 1995, but is 'case history' from PATAS, and relates to suspended bays. If you're bored give it a read; this is what you can expect from tribunal.

It's worth noting that the evidence presented in the link I have provided is 1995 and terminology errors that have been picked up ("offences" for example, which were/are not relevant) would have been rectified. Don't expect similar from Westminster in 2008.

However, it gives an idea of requirements and standards and will assist you should you decide to pursue an appeal.

Hope helps

Rob

http://www.parkingandtrafficappeals.gov.uk/user_documents/barker-main6.pdf

 

[Ade B]

Thanks Robert, do you mind if I use the case of Franklyn Heslop as a precedent in my appeal.

If so I will let you know how it goes...


Ade

 

[robert.saunders]

Sure; it's public domain info, worth a punt (which is true for any PCN, I welcome adjudication input)

 

[Spinal]

I got a fine in South Kensignton (in the bays next too Imperial College/Royal Albert hall) under similar circumstances....

I ended up paying and forgetting about it; strangely enough, a few weeks later I met the parking attendant who serves the area... He used to be a (fairly famous) DJ at a radio station in The Gambia (whom I knew quite well)...

It really changed my view of parking attendants - it took away my "vampirical tyrants" view and made me realise that they are just trying to make a living.

In summary, I don't have much advice on your ticket, just a thought from a while back

Michele

 

[Parrot of Doom]

It really changed my view of parking attendants - it took away my "vampirical tyrants" view and made me realise that they are just trying to make a living.

Doesn't matter how much they're paid - they're still scum IMO.

 

[robert.saunders]

What a charming individual you are

 

[crockers]

Doesn't matter how much they're paid - they're still scum IMO.

Yea right on ..lets do away with the "scum" and then we can park where ever and when ever we want to with no regards to other users..Whilst we're at it lets do away with the Pigs and then we can do just what ever we want everywhere.... lets all rob the banks (thieving capitalist swine) -- and lets shoot all politicians for making us pay taxes..


Anarchy rules in the UK -- OK..

 

[Parrot of Doom]

Lets do away with the scum and fine people for parking where they're actually causing an obstruction, and not just as a means of generating revenue for the council.

Lets do away with such scum issuing PCNs on technically invalid parking bays.

Lets do away with such scum issuing PCNs that do not conform to the standards set out in law.

Lets do away with any of them not giving the 5 minutes grace period.

Lets do away with them enforcing newly created local parking schemes where previously parking or congestion wasn't a problem.

While we're at it, lets do away with the new rules that allow enforcement of parking without even having to issue a ticket at the time of the offence, so the owner has a lower chance of successfully appealing such tickets.


They're scum, and I'm still a charming individual. They however, are not. I hate them.

 

[Parrot of Doom]

Yea right on ..lets do away with the "scum" and then we can park where ever and when ever we want to with no regards to other users..Whilst we're at it lets do away with the Pigs and then we can do just what ever we want everywhere.... lets all rob the banks (thieving capitalist swine) -- and lets shoot all politicians for making us pay taxes..


Anarchy rules in the UK -- OK..

You'll get no agreement from me on calling the Police 'pigs'. The Police have a valuable job to do, I'm glad they exist, and generally they have my full support.