Thank-you Pontoneer

[SilverSaloon]

No , it was just Derek . I just thought it would be a nice gesture , offering to buy the others lunch , as a way of saying 'thank you' .

yep i totally agree, an excellent idea, and 100% up for it, but just wondered how interested the others would be in our cars - our meets dont tend to be just about cars anyway, so if they are not really interested they would still not be bored! last time we discussed whiskey and Del320's fancy piece. i suspect being in the area of the police they are in, they are interested in cars anyway. hopefully not too "interested" in mine, but they both have recent MOT's m'lud.

maybe i should attend in the unfixed alfa for a laugh and jail sentence

 

[219]

I'd probably be best parking my 'low-rider' at the far end of the carpark too !

 

[fuzzer]

just a thought - i know Derek showed an interest in attending the meet as he liked all cars and photography, but did anyone hear the other 3 mention this?

was this possibly the conversation derek had with me about me taking pictures of their cars rather than ours?

 

[SilverSaloon]

was this possibly the conversation derek had with me about me taking pictures of their cars rather than ours?

which derek?

derek the instructor showed an interest in our meets to photograph our cars i believe, maybe i got the wrong end of the stick. he also said that we could arrange to revisit to get photographs of their cars. two different conversations i think

 

[219]

Yes , that is exactly right .

Derek Simpson , the instructor , said he could arrange to get some of their cars out if we wanted to revisit for photography . He also mentioned he was a keen photographer himself and asked us to let him know when we would be having a meet so he could photograph our cars .

 

[del320]

yep i totally agree, an excellent idea, and 100% up for it, but just wondered how interested the others would be in our cars - our meets dont tend to be just about cars anyway, so if they are not really interested they would still not be bored! last time we discussed whiskey and Del320's fancy piece. i suspect being in the area of the police they are in, they are interested in cars anyway. hopefully not too "interested" in mine, but they both have recent MOT's m'lud.

maybe i should attend in the unfixed alfa for a laugh and jail sentence

.

 

[fuzzer]

cool just checking

 

[G-Force]

Yes , that is exactly right .

Derek Simpson , the instructor , said he could arrange to get some of their cars out if we wanted to revisit for photography . He also mentioned he was a keen photographer himself and asked us to let him know when we would be having a meet so he could photograph our cars .

I'll pay for all 4 of their lunches if they take me out for a blast.

I know im pushing my luck but im still gutted i missed the event.

 

[stwat]

Wait a min, so this, "nearly twice the NSL on wet, greasy, twisty backroads" was done on public roads right? For no other good reason than showing off how good their driving skills are? With members of the public in the cars with them? In other words, they wernt on any training drives?

How can that be legal, or safe for that matter?

Il tell you what. I feel like showing my mates how fast and safely i can take my car over the snake pass. Would that be OK?

Forgive me, i am not having a go at the excellent work these police drivers do and i fully respect them and the job they do. But its a bit of a piss take that they can go out whenever they like for a joy ride with members of the public in their cars and drive at highly illegal speeds(for you and i)whenever they like isn't it?

Sorry if i'm going against the grain here, but them's my thoughts.

Stu

 

[Druk]

'Thems' was my thoughts too (and I was there), so I asked. Apparently, since the drivers concerned are all instructors, the opportunity to 'indulge' and to demonstrate their skills is regarded as an additional training tool and to keep them up to speed (sic). Most of their time in cars is now spent in the rear seat, either instructing or assessing.

 

[robert.saunders]

Fantastic driving & riding with the traffic guys; well done for organising this, a rare insight.

I concur re: their driving skills, the ability to cover cross-country routes is at times incredible.

 

[SilverSaloon]

'Thems' was my thoughts too (and I was there), so I asked. Apparently, since the drivers concerned are all instructors, the opportunity to 'indulge' and to demonstrate their skills is regarded as an additional training tool and to keep them up to speed (sic). Most of their time in cars is now spent in the rear seat, either instructing or assessing.

yes we were also told that they can take the cars out in this way whenever they wanted since they are the instructing college rather than having to organise to take them out.

i suspect they often go out on these types of runs to keep their skills tip-top whether we are in the car or not.

 

[st4]

Just caught up with this thread. Shame I had to miss it as sounds like fun. They wouldn't be willing to do another would they

Certainly Derek (pontoneer) if they can come back with a date shouting them some lunch would be great, as they'd make interesting guests and its an excuse for another GTG.

 

[Barryh]

Hi guys,sorry not to have replied sooner but did not have required internet acess.
Any way I agree ,thanks to Pontooneer for arranging a fab evening.And also to the guys at Tulliallan.

I drove to aberdeen the next day and my eyes were sore with all that observation.

I look forward to the next event.

 

[JumboBeef]

'Thems' was my thoughts too (and I was there), so I asked. Apparently, since the drivers concerned are all instructors, the opportunity to 'indulge' and to demonstrate their skills is regarded as an additional training tool and to keep them up to speed (sic). Most of their time in cars is now spent in the rear seat, either instructing or assessing.

yes we were also told that they can take the cars out in this way whenever they wanted since they are the instructing college rather than having to organise to take them out.

i suspect they often go out on these types of runs to keep their skills tip-top whether we are in the car or not.

The emergency services can claim exceptions for training purposes, true: but for the training of other emergency drivers, not just to go for a jolly with friends. Sounds very suspect to me........

Consider this: emergency drivers can claim exemptions from speed limits etc by virtue of Section 87 Road Traffic Regulation Act 1984 (as amended by Section 19 Road Safety Act 2006).

This states:

(1) No statutory provision imposing a speed limit on motor vehicles shall apply to any vehicle on an occasion when–

(a) it is being used for fire and rescue authority purposes or for or in connection with the exercise of any function of a relevant authority as defined in section 6 of the Fire (Scotland) Act 2005, for Ambulance purposes or for Police or Serious Organised Crime Agency purposes,

(b) it is being used for other prescribed purposes in such circumstances as may be prescribed, or

(c) it is being used for training persons to drive vehicles for use for any of the purposes mentioned in paragraph (a) or (b) above, if the observance of that provision would be likely to hinder the use of the vehicle for the purpose for which it was being used on that occasion.

Point C states that the vehicle can be used for training purposes, for police purposes. I go back to what I said above: you can't just decide 'I need to practice my driving' and stick the blue lights on, and having non-police personal in the car (friends you are just trying to impress) to me seems a complete no-no. Does the police driver invloved in this little trip know that it has been posted about on a public forum?

.....and yes, I do know what I am talking about: I also drive for the emergency serives and claim exemptons under the above act everytime I drive so I know the law very well......

 

[del320]

Does the police driver involved in this little trip know that it has been posted about on a public forum?

Four drivers, actually - and voluntarily in their own time.
Yes.
Two other members of public, unknown to ourselves, also attended.
Event organised by Forum member, who through his own job, works closely within the field of road safety. Also included a classroom presentation and Q & A session.
Certainly not a "jolly" but a legitimate educational insight into an area of expertise which Tullieallan would be happy to pass on to other serious parties.
And at their level, a skill which can and should be justifiably honed at any time.

 

[JumboBeef]

and voluntarily in their own time.

So they were not even on-shift when they went on these blue light runs......?

Certainly not a "jolly" but a legitimate educational insight into an area of expertise which Tullieallan would be happy to pass on to other serious parties.

I don't see the word 'training' in there, as per the act above. Where does 'legitimate educational insight' fit into 'training'? Were they training you? Were you training them?

And at their level, a skill which can and should be justifiably honed at any time.

Again, you can't just practice on this sort of driving the public roads. Training yes, but you can't just stick the blue lights on as and when the fancy takes you.

Remember this?

Shock after 159mph police officer cleared of speeding | Mail Online

Yes, the police office was cleared but the important bit is:

A spokesman for West Mercia Police said later that the force was clarifying the guidance it issued to advanced drivers.


The spokesman said there were exemptions in law in relation to the speed limit and police officers but that any breach had to be justifiable on every occasion.

How can what happed (in this thread) be justifiable under the above Act?

Remember the Act says:

it is being used for training persons to drive vehicles for use for any of the purposes mentioned

The vehicles were not being used for 'police purposes' as they were being used to demonstrate driving to the general public and not to other police officers.

If there is anyone here from the police, please do prove me wrong and I'll gladly take a running jump, but until then I just cannot see how driving a car, whilst off-shift, with blues on at 120+ plus on wet, greasy roads, pushing it so fast that you are suffering from oversteer just to show your skills to members of the general public who are passengers in the same vehicles can be justified under the above Act..........

Final word: consider this story, no one is perfect:

BBC NEWS | Scotland | Highlands and Islands | Police car and ambulance in crash


​

 

[JumboBeef]

You know guys, I like this forum. I like the people here, and I am appreciative of the help I have recieved whilst I have been a member.

So..........I don't want to fall out with anyone. They guys who attending this meeting had a great time. Good. I don't want to turn this thread into a punch up or a one-man crusade so I'm going to go and read a book/take a bath/cut the grass or something else

 

[219]

I was present at the above meeting , and was responsible for organising it . I have been to Tulliallan on numerous previous occasions with IAM and League of Safe Drivers groups for advanced training , both on road and on their skid pan .

The drives in question were partially an educational experience for those of us visiting on the night , but also , as confirmed by the drivers on the night were of value to those drivers to keep their own skills up to the required levels - since during the courses where they work as instructors from day to day they spend all their time sitting in the passenger seat , not driving , and seldom get to drive themselves . Two of the drivers confirmed that this evening was of value to them as a training exercise - for themselves ! They were also evaluating the two Jaguar patrol cars just recently loaned to them by Tayside Constabulary with a view to using them for training purposes .

Although not mentioned on this occasion , I know from past visits that the college holds a Home Office exemption certificate which allows them to exceed the NSL for training purposes , but not 'regulatory' speed limits within built up areas ( which WERE rigidly adhered to at all times during the drives ) .

 

[flango]

Just catching up with this thread after being away but remember this took place in Scotland where different laws apply. A police driver training instructor on a drive himself, with another officer or a member of the public is always on a training drive as long as the drive is logged. The visit of the MB Club would have been logged at Tulliallen so if anything did happen it would be covered under the training and exercise rules so there is no issue

A bit different in England I am afraid as already pointed out, police drivers with members of the public are not "officialy" allowed to exceed the speed limits on demonstration drives. External instructors are also not allowed to exceed the speed limits so no fun south of the border I'm afraid