The 2020 CL215 Owners Register

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No,not as such, but if the struts require flushing there are bleed points for that procedure.

You do not have a car, if you are researching before buying I strongly suggest that you carefully study "The ABC suspension" by Bayhas.
It is thorough & comprehensive. It can be found on Page 2 of this very thread here, that you are reading.

 

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Fitting wider rear wheels on the front to make the most of ABC by Welwynnick.


I started off wondering whether I could fit enormous wheels all round. Now I know the answer is yes, I'm not sure I want to. What I found is that width isn't as much a problem as I thought - you just need the right offset. Front wheels don't have to be 20-30mm narrower than rear wheels, they can safely be the same size, and there isn't too much to fear from the dynamic aspect.

20's aren't a problem in themselves - you just need the right profile %. If you go big, wide & lot profile, you simply pay the price in ride, noise and durability. I've been looking at used 20" wheels on ebay for a while, and I've been struck by the high proportion that have welded crack repairs. If you run 20's, you can be pretty sure of breaking a wheel.

I'm running 19's at the moment - 245/40 and 275/35. They look great, and the road noise isn't too bad, but the ride is very surface dependant. Its OK on good surfaces, but they react badly to broken surfaces. I assume 245/35 & 275/30 on 20's would be even worse, and I'm not sure I could put up with that.

Here's the interesting bit, though. I'm interested in the dynamics, and 265/40/18x9 grips and steers better than 245/40/19x8.5 at the front. 275/35/19 at the front are even better, but at the rear they add NOTHING except looks. They add nothing to grip, nothing to ride, nothing to noise, nothing to traction and nothing to steering.

So I think having 265-40-18 all round would be better than staggered 19's, in every respect except maybe looks. Take another look at post 4, picture 3 - the wide rear wheels fill the front arches well, even though they're "only" 9x18's. If you can run 4x18x9 (or 9.5), then 275-40's would probably be a good choice dynamically and aesthetically. Therefore:

4 x 275/40/18x9 is a good conservative choice - better than staggered 19's.
4 x 275/35/19x9.5 is a good ambitious choice - almost certainly better than staggered 20's.
4 x 275/30/20x10 may well work, but its starting to look a bit extreme to me. Bragging rights only, I suspect, and nothing wrong with that.

The S600 isn't the ultimate luxury car, nor the ultimate sports saloon, but with the V12TT and ABC suspension, it gets unbeatably close to being both. So I think an iron fist in a velvet glove is it's raison d'etre - the best compromise between the two. I never realised how close it got until I replaced my pulsation damper this week, and upgrading the front wheels showed a little bit more of what ABC can do. With conventional passive suspension, the wider the tire and the lower the profile - the more the need to minimise camber angle change - paradoxical given the increased body roll.

So bigger tires give diminishing returns - the more grip you provide, the less potential you can realise. Since ABC minimises dynamic camber change, it makes the most of all tyres - but especially wide tyres. Therefore I think an ABC car with say 4 x 275/40/18x9's may give better handling AND ride than ANY Airmatic car with ANY tires, or ANY ABC car with staggered tires. Get greedy with the wheel size though - the brilliant compromise shifts too far, and that iron fist no longer wears a velvet glove.

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Galvanisation & Galvanic Corrosion
Use of galvanized steel alone is not sufficient to guarantee corrosion resistance because of localized corrosion experienced at specific areas of the vehicle body areas
These vulnerable areas include cut edges of panels and creviced features such as lap joints and hem flanges.

Galvanic Corrosion

Also known as bimetallic corrosion, is an electrochemical process. That is to say, it occurs as a result of the flow of very small electric currents usually between two dissimilar metals which causes the more anodic of the two metals to corrode faster than it would all by itself. While the other becomes the cathode & corrodes slower than it would alone. . the rate of galvanic corrosion is very slow requiring many hours of exposure to electrolyte before visible corrosion appears.

Cut edge of galvanized steel panel.

Galvanized steel panels are vulnerable to increased corrosive attack compared to open surfaces.
This because the panels are cut to size after galvanizing, resulting in discontinuities of the zinc coating,
Furthermore, e-coat paint may not adhere well to sharp comers due to surface tension effects and shrinkage of the paint during curing.

Hem flanges

Hem flanges are used to join outer and inner body panels (such as the door inner and outer panel) by wrapping the outer panel edge around the inner panel.
Historically, hem flanges and lapped joints constructed from non-zinc coated steel and without adequate drainage provision suffered from perforation corrosion due to corrosive attack initiating within the crevice area.
In addition, paint treatments may not be able to penetrate into creviced or recessed areas.
Therefore, these vulnerable areas are protected against corrosion by the application of organic sealers, waxes, lacquer as well as the use of galvanized steel and paint treatments.

Crevice corrosion

Crevice corrosion happens when a corrosive liquid, such as salt water, makes its way through an opening to settle between aluminum and another substrate, such as steel or even plastic, according to the Aluminum Association.
“Higher temperatures, salt content and other factors can accelerate the corrosion,” the association wrote.
The corrosion typically appears as shallow “pits or etching patterns” and will turn up in “under gasket fittings, welded lap joints, overlapping metal seams, folded or formed sheet hems,”
The solution is to use primers, sealers, coatings and seam sealers says, the Aluminum Association

Filiform corrosion

Filiform corrosion loves to screw up your paint job but generally isn’t a structural issue, according to the Aluminiun Association.
It appears on the substrate underneath your coatings, often after a” stone chip, scratch or sharp cut edges, or punched or drilled holes” create an opening.
It can spread underneath the coating, capitalizing on voids in an adhesive or an inconsistent oxide layer on the substrate.
“Filiform corrosion typically results in paint bubbling and separating from the metallic surface,” the Aluminum Association wrote. “This form of corrosion appears as thin thread-like filaments filled with corrosion products (white powder) beneath the coating.”
Fortunately, unlike rust on steel, aluminum corrosion tends to be cosmetic in nature rather than structural, according to the trade group— the corrosion produces an ugly paint job but leave your vehicle intact.
“Corrosion of aluminum is predominantly surface corrosion and does not penetrate through the thickness of the material and does not weaken the structural integrity of the part, however, repairers pointed out that naturally occurring aluminum oxide on a bare aluminum surface — a fourth type of corrosion worth noting — can cause weld porosity.
The use of dissimilar metals in the automotive industry has been a concern ever since its inception, when an automobile manufacturer attached a piece of aluminum hardware to a steel body only to see it corrode later.
So either make sure the two materials never touch, or use “sealers, such as adhesives, primers, and other paint coatings” to keep an electrolyte like salt water away from them..
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Galvanising of Mercedes cars
S CLASS –220series and CL class 215 series.
The S class and CL class are built of a combination of aluminium and steel. For the
aluminium components there is, of course, no galvanising process.
All steel panels were galvanised from Quarter 1 2003 production onwards.
During the previous quarter (Q4 2002) the process was gradually introduced
on the production line and therefore some vehicles were galvanised during
this lead-up period, but not all.
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How do you neutralize aluminum corrosion?
A neutral soap and water wash will help remove the oxidized film. If the oxidation has built up for a long time, a buffing wheel will help remove it from the aluminum surface. To stop the corrosive effects, however, you must apply a protective coating to the aluminum and keep the coating maintained over time.
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[PeteCL55AMG]

Bad news everyone, my ABC has failed again . As I reported on here, I had to replace both front struts 10 months ago and as genuine Mercedes replacements were £1,500 each I found some remanufactured parts at around £600 for both from China that came with a 2 year warranty, so worth a punt.

One has failed and the other is leaking so not good and now, surprise, surprise I am getting no response from the company - but I won’t give up on it as frustrating and expensive. The garage have said that it has also damaged the ABC/power steering pump too! So that also needs replacing. Does that ring true?

Garage are refusing to repair unless I use genuine MB parts so looking at a bill of over £6k! I will let you know how I get on.

Out of interest, has anyone had their struts repaired as I think you can as I have the original ones still?

Thanks

Pete

 

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Bad news everyone, my ABC has failed again . As I reported on here, I had to replace both front struts 10 months ago and as genuine Mercedes replacements were £1,500 each I found some remanufactured parts at around £600 for both from China that came with a 2 year warranty, so worth a punt.

One has failed and the other is leaking so not good and now, surprise, surprise I am getting no response from the company - but I won’t give up on it as frustrating and expensive. The garage have said that it has also damaged the ABC/power steering pump too! So that also needs replacing. Does that ring true?

Garage are refusing to repair unless I use genuine MB parts so looking at a bill of over £6k! I will let you know how I get on.

Out of interest, has anyone had their struts repaired as I think you can as I have the original ones still?

Thanks

Pete

Bad news everyone, my ABC has failed again . As I reported on here, I had to replace both front struts 10 months ago and as genuine Mercedes replacements were £1,500 each I found some remanufactured parts at around £600 for both from China that came with a 2 year warranty, so worth a punt.

One has failed and the other is leaking so not good and now, surprise, surprise I am getting no response from the company - but I won’t give up on it as frustrating and expensive. The garage have said that it has also damaged the ABC/power steering pump too! So that also needs replacing. Does that ring true?

Garage are refusing to repair unless I use genuine MB parts so looking at a bill of over £6k! I will let you know how I get on.

Out of interest, has anyone had their struts repaired as I think you can as I have the original ones still?

Thanks

Pete

Sad to read that Pete. I do not understand why pump failure is due to strut failure/leaks as it is a "dead end" with fluid not being returned to main system.
Before you go spending extortionate sums of money I would urge you to get a second opinion., preferably from a recommended "Indie"
Refurbished struts are available.
Mattk1 or Renault may be able to help for a source.

Simon

 

[PeteCL55AMG]

Sad to read that Pete. I do not understand why pump failure is due to strut failure/leaks as it is a "dead end" with fluid not being returned to main system.
Before you go spending extortionate sums of money I would urge you to get a second opinion., preferably from a recommended "Indie"
Refurbished struts are available.
Mattk1 or Renault may be able to help for a source.

Simon

As always Simon, a helpful response. I am doing that and it’s on its way to Avantguard in Clevedon who I was planning to start taking it to anyway. Yes I thought the pump was weird as always shown good pressure. The garage that I previously recommended have actually been pretty poor with this latest episode, so strike PSC in Cheltenham off your list folks.

Refurbished struts are an option but seems still not recommended by most garages even Indies. Quoted £1k per strut today (genuine MB) so slightly better.

I will let you know what this new indie has to say.

Thanks

Pete

 

[splitpin]

Bad news everyone, my ABC has failed again . As I reported on here, I had to replace both front struts 10 months ago and as genuine Mercedes replacements were £1,500 each I found some remanufactured parts at around £600 for both from China that came with a 2 year warranty, so worth a punt.

One has failed and the other is leaking so not good and now, surprise, surprise I am getting no response from the company - but I won’t give up on it as frustrating and expensive. The garage have said that it has also damaged the ABC/power steering pump too! So that also needs replacing. Does that ring true?

Garage are refusing to repair unless I use genuine MB parts so looking at a bill of over £6k! I will let you know how I get on.

Out of interest, has anyone had thsult of strut failure because the strut area fluid does not circulate within the main system I would suggest you

Sad to read that Pete. I do not understand why pump failure is due to strut failure/leaks as it is a "dead end" with fluid not being returned to main system.
Before you go spending extortionate sums of money I would urge you to get a second opinion., preferably from a recommended "Indie"
Refurbished struts are available.
Mattk1 or Renault may be able to help for a source.

Simon

Try Google for refurbished items.
Alexipress sell struts (Use their search for "Mercedes W215 front struts")
Renault ts recently posted this "The Alexipress one is very good and the OP has been advised this many times by a poster on the other side who has done 50k on 2".

I appreciate that you will view Chinese poorly at present but if it were me I would
trust an experienced member.
If you do buy remember that Duty may be charged on top.
Simon

 

[PeteCL55AMG]

As always Simon, a helpful response. I am doing that and it’s on its way to Avantguard in Clevedon who I was planning to start taking it to anyway. Yes I thought the pump was weird as always shown good pressure. The garage that I previously recommended have actually been pretty poor with this latest episode, so strike PSC in Cheltenham off your list folks.

Refurbished struts are an option but seems still not recommended by most garages even Indies. Quoted £1k per strut today (genuine MB) so slightly better.

I will let you know what this new indie has to say.

Thanks

Pete

Try Google for refurbished items.
Alexipress sell struts (Use their search for "Mercedes W215 front struts")
Renault ts recently posted this "The Alexipress one is very good and the OP has been advised this many times by a poster on the other side who has done 50k on 2".

I appreciate that you will view Chinese poorly at present but if it were me I would
trust an experienced member.
If you do buy remember that Duty may be charged on top.
Simon

I have taken a look at Alexipress and they are a shopping site and there are quite a few Chinese manufacturers for the struts, so be good to know which one it was and to see who posted about the 50k lifespan. I did take a look at @renault12ts posts but it wasn't clear to me, so be good to know.

One word of warning when purchasing automotive products from shopping sites such as Ebay (in my case), they will only cover you for 30 days post the purchase, then they wash their hands of it. The seller is not replying to my messages to resolve these failed struts and I spoke to Ebay at length and even though a Seller on their site clearly states they provide a 2 year warranty, if the part fails after 30 days, you are on your own!

I found the same seller 'Airsufat' on Amazon as tried to be sneaky and to communicate with them on a different platform showing interest in purchasing and asking about the warranty. They did chat for a while until I told them about my issue, now they have gone quiet on me too.

Amazon have told me that they would 'reimburse' the buyer if the 'Seller' did not resolve the issue or communicate back, that would be for the entire warranty period, so sounds like it is advisable to purchase automotive parts that come with a warranty on Amazon, or check with the shopping site if they will do the same. If you look at feedback on Amazon for such sellers, you can see that Amazon has put a message up to say that when there has been an issue.

Also of course, you cannot leave any negative feedback to warn others as this is 10 months after I purchased the product.

 

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Amazon will refund if their conditions are met. I have had success & also on Ebay.
Have you checked remanparts. mercedes-benz for reconditioned items ? I am unsure of prices.
Rebuildmastertech.com in USA.
Mattk1 is very experienced on W215 items & worth a PM (He has W216 now)..

Simon.

 

[PeteCL55AMG]

Amazon will refund if their conditions are met. I have had success & also on Ebay.
Have you checked remanparts. mercedes-benz for reconditioned items ? I am unsure of prices.
Rebuildmastertech.com in USA.
Mattk1 is very experienced on W215 items & worth a PM (He has W216 now)..

Simon.

Remanparts don't have any struts to fit my CL at present and Rebuildmastertech only have rear struts, so will email them both. I will DM Mattk1 as you suggest so thanks.

 

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Remanparts don't have any struts to fit my CL at present and Rebuildmastertech only have rear struts, so will email them both. I will DM Mattk1 as you suggest so thanks.

Try Renault ts for info on Aliexpress .

 

[100%Bitch]

Has anyone tried these guys in the Netherlands?

ABCspecialist, the no.1 specialist in Audi, Bentley, Mercedes Benz and Porsche air suspension. ABC & airmatic shock absorbers, parts, struts, pumps, valves, ignition coils and hybrid systems available from stock.

ABCspecialist, the no.1 specialist in Audi, Bentley, Mercedes Benz and Porsche air suspension. ABC hydraulic & airmatic air suspension, shock absorbers, parts,

www.abcspecialist.nl

 

[PeteCL55AMG]

Has anyone tried these guys in the Netherlands?

ABCspecialist, the no.1 specialist in Audi, Bentley, Mercedes Benz and Porsche air suspension. ABC & airmatic shock absorbers, parts, struts, pumps, valves, ignition coils and hybrid systems available from stock.

ABCspecialist, the no.1 specialist in Audi, Bentley, Mercedes Benz and Porsche air suspension. ABC hydraulic & airmatic air suspension, shock absorbers, parts,

www.abcspecialist.nl

I am aware of them as I found previously a good overview of the ABC system which I know Simon posted on here for us all. However they offer no warranty which is a risk, see statement on their site:

All products are fully inspected, tested and functional before being shipped. You have the right of withdrawal, a 14 days cool down period. You can return a product within 14 days when unused and being uninstalled, using your right of withdrawal. If you notice an issue, defect or damage before assembly, the item can also be returned and exchanged for another item, within the same period.No returns are accepted after 14 days and no returns are accepted after usage, please read the terms and conditions that apply to the sale. Returns are only processed after receiving back the product and technical examination. Parts ordered on demand, electronic parts, and discounted parts can't be returned.

So if your strut or part fails after 14 days you’ve had it!

Thanks

Pete

 

[100%Bitch]

So if your strut or part fails after 14 days you’ve had it!

Thanks

Pete

Seems that's the case with the Chinese ones too if they don't acknowledge any communication to them.

 

[PeteCL55AMG]

Seems that's the case with the Chinese ones too if they don't acknowledge any communication to them.

Yup

 

[PeteCL55AMG]

Yup

Thanks for everyone's input on this to date.

So I had the full diagnosis from new indie MB specialist 'Avantgarde' in Clevedon - Steve is on our forums and very knowledgeable and Steve tends to agree that the Struts leaking would have nothing to do with the Tandem Pump failing as as this is the original pump on the car, it is at the end of its lifespan, so it seems an annoying extra complication and cost.

Chinese supplier of the Struts is still not replying to me, but I am still trying. Ebay will not do anymore other than as they say 'Report' the Seller, but what does that mean? Poor really!

So the quote to get my CL55 AMG back on the road is £4,090.20 including VAT.

- Two struts (which they have sourced at better price than previous garage) £1,236 & £1,186.80
- Tandem Pump £676.20
- Oil £140.40
- Filter £40.80
- Labour £675

Options on struts:

Mercedes Genuine Struts from my Indie garage - £1,236 & £1,186.80 = £2,422.80

Refurbished struts with 'World of Regeneration' at £620 each + £90 deposit + shipping cost £65.00 = £1,305.
The deposit will be refunded as soon as they receive my old part (I do have my original MB struts still in the garage).

Aliexpress for remanufactured by a company called Luft Meister from China again but different manufacturer.
￡359.50 each plus ￡114.93 = £833.93 (might be some excise to pay). However, just popped two in my shopping cart and it said they don't deliver to UK, but sure they would if I searched around.

So here is my dilemma, go down a similar route again at £833.93 ish for 2 and chance them failing and not being able to get a response from the seller?

Buy 'refurbished at £1,275 which come with a 2 year warranty, but again, what happens if they fail? Have the concern they may not communicate with me and the cost to fix all over again.

MB new original struts at £2,422.80 or peace of mind with the MB product - although I have just asked the question of what warranty do I get with genuine MB struts.

What else can go wrong with my ABC system is my concern, as it can only be a matter of time that issues happen on the rear struts?

Anyway, just thought this would be useful to share and as always interested in all your thoughts (I won't hold you to them) as we are all keen on keeping these wonderful cars on the road and enjoying them - but give me a break here!

Thanks

Pete

 

[splitpin]

Pleased that you have updated us. That Indie sounds OK.
I understand your dilemma. It is a question really as to whether you are going to keep the car or whether it may go the route of many in such circumstances.
Struts in particular are expensive. I bought a " dog" & have survived on secondhand
components. It was a deliberate exercise. I have only had one failure (Strut) but one has to be careful in choice of purchase. More later.....
Simon

 

[PeteCL55AMG]

Pleased that you have updated us. That Indie sounds OK.
I understand your dilemma. It is a question really as to whether you are going to keep the car or whether it may go the route of many in such circumstances.
Struts in particular are expensive. I bought a " dog" & have survived on secondhand
components. It was a deliberate exercise. I have only had one failure (Strut) but one has to be careful in choice of purchase. More later.....
Simon

I personally would love to keep my CL but my wife has other ideas , so we will see who wins that one. I don’t think I would be happy putting on cheaper struts even if I was selling, just doesn’t seem right thing to do.

 

[splitpin]

I personally would love to keep my CL but my wife has other ideas , so we will see who wins that one. I don’t think I would be happy putting on cheaper struts even if I was selling, just doesn’t seem right thing to do.

I sincerely hope that you are successful .Certainly praiseworthy Pete.


"Refurbished struts are an option but seems still not recommended by most garages even Indies"

Franchised dealers sell M-B parts.
Indies have their reputation to protect, with some only willing to fit M-B parts now.

Predominantly It is seals that wear/fail on ABC struts.causing fluid to escape with tell tale leakage on the garage floor.This failure is worsened by the protective boot splitting with age & permitting ingress of road swash.

Seals have previously been sourced & fitted but not always with success resulting in some with premature failure.
Ebay are currently selling updated seal kits Sealkit for Front left/right ABC Shock Strut Mercedes Benz SL R230 2003-2011 | eBay that are from Germany.

 

[PeteCL55AMG]

I sincerely hope that you are successful .Certainly praiseworthy Pete.


"Refurbished struts are an option but seems still not recommended by most garages even Indies"

Franchised dealers sell M-B parts.
Indies have their reputation to protect, with some only willing to fit M-B parts now.

Predominantly It is seals that wear/fail on ABC struts.causing fluid to escape with tell tale leakage on the garage floor.This failure is worsened by the protective boot splitting with age & permitting ingress of road swash.

Seals have previously been sourced & fitted but not always with success resulting in some with premature failure.
Ebay are currently selling updated seal kits Sealkit for Front left/right ABC Shock Strut Mercedes Benz SL R230 2003-2011 | eBay that are from Germany.

Thanks Simon for this detail, always useful to know.

Yes just spoke to my garage and he is saying that over the years he has had so many bad experiences with non MB parts including companies such as Arnotts with refurbished struts that it just isn't worth the hassle, nor the added time and further expense for customers and the garage, which I do totally understand after what I have learnt to date.

So it is peace of mind with MB parts as they do come with a 2 year warranty and any issues (which he said was rare) are sorted quicky with MB, it is just that these Struts are so ludicrously expensive for what they are!

I think many of us are in the same boat with our cars, we buy them when they are 20 years old, thinking we understand there will be costs to keep them on the road, even learning about the complex ABC system and thinking it won't be that bad surely, but then you can be unlucky and have an experience as I have and you start to weigh up what you paid for your CL in the first place versus what the parts are to repair (the labour isn't an issue). But that is the rub of the green!

Struts do seem to be the major headache due to the extortionate cost from MB and as I am no mechanic, even fitting them is a little more complex with the ABC system and fluid and the need for the Star system! I certainly don't have the kit or no how to work on my CL (other than basic repairs which I have done a few so far which all went well). So I wouldn't dream of tinkering with the ABC, as its not like working on my old Series 3 LandRover!

So knowing what I know now, I should have gone for MB struts and swallowed the expense. I would have had better peace of mind as having the same issue repaired 10 months later is really annoying and costly, not to mention the fact that it looks like I will get no refund from either the seller 'Airsusfat' - SO DO NOT BUY FROM THIS SELLER UNLESS YOU ARE HAPPY TO TAKE A PUNT AS YOU WILL NOT GET A REFUND OR REPLACEMENT OR EVENT A REPLY.

Also please all be aware of buying automotive parts with warranties on 'ebay'. I have been a customer of ebay for some 15 years and they are saying they can do nothing for me, after I have had numerous conversations including one this morning to one of their supervisor's - which is just extremely poor. The Seller has sold 4,700 items on ebay at let's say an average cost of £200+ ? So a tidy sum in revenue and selling fees and so it's not difficult to work out why they won't do anything other than send the Seller a message on my behalf!

I will have the car repaired with new MB Struts and a new Tandem pump and fingers crossed, I don't have any issues for some time, but I have asked my new Indie to take a good look at my car for me, as how long before the back struts go, I dread to think.