OP
OP
The end of SBC
- Thread starter television
- Start date
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- Feb 8, 2007
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- 20,779
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- Portsmouth, Hampshire.
- Car
- E55K SL500 E250X2 Smart44 Brabus Track car E450Cabriolet X350 Pick up
The SBC system has been trouble right from the start.
Whne they fail the brakes become so bad its impossible to stop safely under normal conditions.
If the system aborted when coding new software the SBC pump was no longer useable and a new one had to be fitted. Try explaining that to a customer.....
They are a real pain to bleed properly and take a minimum of an hour to do with a Star.
The pedal "feels" horrible and does not give you reel feel at all. The plus side is that when it works properly the brakes are truly amazing especially on a 55.
I am glad to see the back of SBC. Expensive and unessary.
Whne they fail the brakes become so bad its impossible to stop safely under normal conditions.
If the system aborted when coding new software the SBC pump was no longer useable and a new one had to be fitted. Try explaining that to a customer.....
They are a real pain to bleed properly and take a minimum of an hour to do with a Star.
The pedal "feels" horrible and does not give you reel feel at all. The plus side is that when it works properly the brakes are truly amazing especially on a 55.
I am glad to see the back of SBC. Expensive and unessary.
OP
OP
television
Hardcore MB Enthusiast
But you have not seen the back of SBC for its all going to come your way in the future, and that cant be bad
glojo
Hardcore MB Enthusiast
Nice that a US link actually mentions SBC Stop although they refer to it as Soft Stop. I can only comment about the 211 and can confirm it was a standard feature for about 12 months on European models. US vehicles only ever had a restricted system and this on the whole was not well received at all, at all..
John
OP
OP
television
Hardcore MB Enthusiast
What is your view of them Elton
Satch
MB Enthusiast
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- Nov 24, 2003
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- 3,508
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- Surrey
- Car
- S211 E320Cdi Avantgarde Estate & Toyota Land Cruiser
Having driven an SBC equipped car for nearly 5 years, I actually have no complaints at all but equally agree it was something that was overly complex, really did not need to be and I have never really been happy with the concept that in the event of failure (with could be sudden with little or no forewarning) it gives you unassisted braking on the front wheels only. Since I have the approximate dimensions of a brick outbuilding that might not be a problem in some circumstances but anybody who has never experienced the pedal effort required to stop a vehicle with no assisted braking would have no chance.
SBC Stop is a feature you either like or loathe: Mrs S likes it, I cannot stand it because on the few times I do use it always end up with left foot twitching over brake pedal.
SBC Hold is useful but there is and was nothing to prevent that being reproduced by a conventional system.
Braking "feel" is dead but you get used to it.
Bottom line is that it is just like the early versions of COMMAND and the associated CANBUS: still in development at the W211 launch date but forced out my marketing men and with entirely predictable results
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OP
OP
television
Hardcore MB Enthusiast
I do not notice any difference in feel on the SL as against driving any other car other than the fact that very little effort is required with the SBC.
Are there any reports of the system failing out there
glojo
Hardcore MB Enthusiast
Don’t Go Breaking My Heart, Mercedes-Benz have made a Sacrifice and are now using Electricity. These brakes could stop a Rocket Man when driving along The Yellow Brick Road, but Don’t Shoot Me, I’m Only The Piano Player and would be Sleeping In The Past to say don’t go, but one day Reg Strike's Back.
We should salute Mercedes-Benz for the way they are always improving the technology on our motor vehicles, we have seen SBC and are now replacing it with the next generation system. My wife has just returned a new 211 and preferred the SBC system, but it is very much an each to their own and she would probably get used to the newer system.
Regards
John
OP
OP
television
Hardcore MB Enthusiast
I would hate to go to a "Funeral for a friend" in" this Season of the rain" as we are "Friends" and feel the the "Tiny danger" that may accure could send you like a "Madman across the water" like a "Rocket man" where you live. Some feel that SBC was "The greatest Discovery" for some time, but at the "End of a day".
Anyway "Saturday nights all right" and hopefully some "Harmony" on the forum "When ever your ready" "Let me be your car"
kth286
MB Enthusiast
What's the Mercedes system called that prevents lesser cars from hitting the back of a Merc ????????????
OP
OP
television
Hardcore MB Enthusiast
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Diesel Benz
MB Enthusiast
SBC Stop and Hold were not seen feasible with traditional brakes. Now MB has all this (Hold on all W211, Stop with Distronic/Distronic Plus and some other SBC features) with "traditional" brakes. SBC is not needed any more then.
Better knock on wood but so far I have not had problems with SBC brakes and I could live with SBC equally as the improved traditional brakes.
Diesel Benz
MB Enthusiast
I thought it was the AMG engine.
Makes it impossible for others to reach your rear.Is this a feature of Distronic PLus, I have a faint idea reading about this but not sure. Distronic Plus with radar based Parktronic sensors would be able to detect another car approaching from behind and the car might reduce brake force in that case. Is this something TV meant? Or were you talking about something different?
Will have to do some homework if this would be explained somewhere.
OP
OP
television
Hardcore MB Enthusiast
I thought it was the AMG engine.
Is this a feature of Distronic PLus, I have a faint idea reading about this but not sure. Distronic Plus with radar based Parktronic sensors would be able to detect another car approaching from behind and the car might reduce brake force in that case. Is this something TV meant? Or were you talking about something different?
Will have to do some homework if this would be explained somewhere.
I posted wrong ignore it
BlackC55 has read my mind, i agree with him 110% its such a PITA to work on and a hassle that's just not needed.
Not that its a bad system for the driver overall i mean i don't get SBC equipped cars with smashed bumpers from hitting the garage wall along with customers complaining about how the bloody brakes are completely pants and they are thinking about investing in an anchor to replace them but as people have already pointed out in this thread everything that SBC could do can now be done by the system fitted to every current MB in production.
I'm not normally a fan of KISS since i like Gucci gadget's but when it comes to my brakes i will make an exception, kudos to MB for dropping it instead of trying to carry on hauling a dead elephant.
Not that its a bad system for the driver overall i mean i don't get SBC equipped cars with smashed bumpers from hitting the garage wall along with customers complaining about how the bloody brakes are completely pants and they are thinking about investing in an anchor to replace them but as people have already pointed out in this thread everything that SBC could do can now be done by the system fitted to every current MB in production.
I'm not normally a fan of KISS since i like Gucci gadget's but when it comes to my brakes i will make an exception, kudos to MB for dropping it instead of trying to carry on hauling a dead elephant.
Satch
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- Surrey
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- S211 E320Cdi Avantgarde Estate & Toyota Land Cruiser
In terms of SBC failures there were quite a number reports on various forums a few years back when the issue was live but IIRC mostly the scary Red "Stop now or you will die" type messages but there were a few reports of shunts.
Now, here is a mostly practically useless piece of information unless you are a Maybach owner: they have (or maybe had) TWIN SBC systems with two calipers on each front wheel driven by different SBC pumps.
OK heavy car but being a cynical bugger I do wonder why it was actually deemed necessary to have two SBC braking systems......
http://www.mercedestechstore.com/pdfs/512_Maybach/512 HO Twin SBC (FrechW) 05-30-03.pdf
Now, here is a mostly practically useless piece of information unless you are a Maybach owner: they have (or maybe had) TWIN SBC systems with two calipers on each front wheel driven by different SBC pumps.
OK heavy car but being a cynical bugger I do wonder why it was actually deemed necessary to have two SBC braking systems......
http://www.mercedestechstore.com/pdfs/512_Maybach/512 HO Twin SBC (FrechW) 05-30-03.pdf
OP
OP
television
Hardcore MB Enthusiast
Yes I have all those PDF's I have belonged to Benzworld for years and MB world and I cant recall any failures there, and this is where 70% of all the SL's go
I agree, as i was saying i don't get cars that have had accidents that are the fault of SBC.
All i do get is people suffering from the big red warning, i was just complaining about how its a PITA to work on.
As for the Maybach, its because they can like half the kit on that car.
glojo
Hardcore MB Enthusiast
I would hate to work on this system and totally agree with both Dan and BlackC55.
I have read a couple of US threads that 'claimed' to have had SBC failures but I think the low voltage warnings are the main cause of scare stories regarding this system. The instant the car detects a low voltage issue we get the red warning messages about various systems including SBC and this last item gets all the bad publicity.
Regards
John
