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This is sad, good cars being crushed!

The bottom line is that sentiment has nothing to do with utility. Your coupe is no more special than my sedan. It is just a car.[/QUOTE]

Says the man who drives a W203 which will never be a classic ever:D:D

Mind you the W210s will never make it either as they will have corroded away!


Lynall
 
well guys i've done the deal today on a new hyundai getz. sadly the R107 was the one that had to go.

























:doh:
 
w124coupe said:
Three separate ratings - front impact, side impact and pedestrian impact.

That's why a visit to the site is worthwhile rather than just taking the "average" from adverts.

And the answer is no - many of the older heavy cars burst at the door frame, have pedals and steering columns that move back in a shunt and have little or no padding where your knees hit the dash (still a weakness in the current RangeRover).

NCAP doesn't rate the car's survival - just the driver and passenger (and pedestrian).



Design and testing beats big and heavy every time...its all about limiting the driver's deceleration (so his organs don't burst), limiting intrusion by pedals and steering and making sure if he does hit something, its softer than him (padded dash designed to deform rather than plastic coated metal - key/ignition lock is a good example that shreds knees in old cars).

There was a TV example - fat Volvo versus Renault modus - here on youTube YouTube - Fifth Gear Crash-test Volvo 940 estate vs Renault Modus
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Thanks, as I said I'm not too sure how NCAP rates cars so it's good to know a bit more about how it all works:thumb:.
 
Go back to 124coupe post and hit the link on the crash test between the Volvo and the Modus, then hit the link to see what Butler-Henderson does to a 124 Estate. I think we rest our case.
 
kth286 said:
Is NCAP testing a comprehensive test of a car's survival and also the occupants inside it ?

Probably NO !!!!!!!!!

Do NCAP tests cars have all the fluids inside them that a normal car would ?

Are the cars at running temperature ?

Do you know how many cars are burnt out in accidents ?

Perhaps the Citroen catches fire more readily than a Rover 100.

Which would you prefer - extensive facial burns or a broken leg ?

Why is it the public cannot have this information ????????
Click to expand...

There is no premise on which to give this advice prior to purchase.
 
popuptoaster said:
So you want to manufacture an electric motor, some batteries all the wiring and associated bits that go with it deliver it all, and then remove and safely dispose of the running gear from my car, how long is it gonna take to earn back the energy deficit you just incurred making and delivering all that lot compared to the energy my car uses in fuel minus the energy needed to charge the batteries i have to fit???? it dont even cut emisions by an awful lot as we dont get much of our power from clean sources so your just moving the pollution.

As for my coupe not being more special than your sedan, thats your opinion, i guess you would prefer an Athena poster to the Mona lisa but thats your opinion and your allowed it, i guess your sedan is a nice non polluting economy vehicle? or is it a large overweight modern car full of energy using things like electric windows and air con?

My coupe is my daily driver and does less than 5000 miles a year, as are many of these older cars that are getting chopped in for scrap so even if they ARE more polluting and less safe, they are on the roads less than the people with more money and bigger more modern, more expensive cars anyway.

All this scheme is doing is either persuading the sort of people who have to drive an old car to go buy a new one on credit they probably cant really afford, or those who have an older car hanging around not doing an awfull lot anyway, and those are the cars that would end up being found under a shett in 20 years ideal for restoration.

personally i'm happier to collect my beautifull woman in my beautifull coupe and go out for dinner getting admiring glances from all the guys in there modern and anonymous sedans. :P
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The bottom line is that the British government and the EU want to save about 25% of the subsidy to car makers by eliminating cars which hold up inventory but are not longer being made.

Your personal opinion and personal choice is partly contributing to the demise of car makers who are no longer able to justify or afford holding the necessary parts.

While it is called an environmental rebate it is more to the point a liability purge. What people are hoping to achieve here is a leaner and more proactive attitude to OLD IS OLD and that is someone elses problem.

While there are all of these punitive arguments over inherent value, carbon life and quality none of these are reflected in the business model which the major players are now adhering to.

This had been brought about by a massive reconstruction of the spare parts industry which now accomodated 80% of the worlds cars across all brands with on inventory.

We have seen that Mercedes, BMW and AUDIO/VW have slowly merged without fanfare and this has created a new kind of merged parts technology where a standard part is only tagged and allocated to a brand once it leaves its holding bin. This then also includes Ford, Fiat, Volvo and Jaguar to name a few. So in the near future you may be allocated a ford part to fasten your BMW part to your MErcedes.

The basic fundamental point is that anything which can not be merged into this new system will be left behind and the cost of ownership will skyrocket.

Now in reality you have all of these marvellous and valid reason for the status quo. However, in the alternate universe, the old models have been cut off from the bloodstream and are being phased out one way or another.

There is no choice in this. Fight, kick, scream all you want but a 2009 Mercedes is 65% cheaper than its 1989 equivalent. That's the way customers want it and thats the way its going to stay. Now its all about survival and the sights are firmly on those cars which cost too much to inventory.
 
I can still get virtually all spares from a MB dealer, i dunno where you get the idea they are dropping older models like hot cakes, in fact they have a scheme where you can go to a MB dealership and buy a mercedes warrantied classic Benz,

Mercedes-Benz Young Classics

I'm not holding anything up, i couldn't afford a new car anyway, not that its the purchase price even without the scrappage scheme, i just couldn't sleep at night knowing how much money the thing was losing parked outside doing nothing every night, in these days when people are being encouraged to recycle i cant understand why a government wants to support and encourage the throwaway society, they say they are worried about jobs and the economy but thats crap as well, no reason you cant make the same money and keep as many jobs alive looking after old cars as you can making new ones.

A car is still a car however old it is, if some companies have to alter or cahnge the way they operate maybe thats what they should do rather than the so called impartial leaders of our countries trying to keep the companies that pay them a nice fat tax bill happy by allowing them to take the easy way to make money and make even more cars, despite the impact that has on the planet.
 
Pointless scheme. Why would I want to scrap my 13 y.o. C200 with 85,000 on the clock, in near showroom condition. Never failed or needed and advisory for it's MOT and buy a French or Italian heepo that will probably have to be replaced in 4-5 years time 'cause its falling to bits.
No contest.
 
popuptoaster said:
I can still get virtually all spares from a MB dealer, i dunno where you get the idea they are dropping older models like hot cakes, in fact they have a scheme where you can go to a MB dealership and buy a mercedes warrantied classic Benz,

Mercedes-Benz Young Classics

I'm not holding anything up, i couldn't afford a new car anyway, not that its the purchase price even without the scrappage scheme, i just couldn't sleep at night knowing how much money the thing was losing parked outside doing nothing every night, in these days when people are being encouraged to recycle i cant understand why a government wants to support and encourage the throwaway society, they say they are worried about jobs and the economy but thats crap as well, no reason you cant make the same money and keep as many jobs alive looking after old cars as you can making new ones.

A car is still a car however old it is, if some companies have to alter or cahnge the way they operate maybe thats what they should do rather than the so called impartial leaders of our countries trying to keep the companies that pay them a nice fat tax bill happy by allowing them to take the easy way to make money and make even more cars, despite the impact that has on the planet.
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Multiply yourself by the population of India and then you might get an idea of what the problem is going to be. Just by finding the exception does not account for the new policy. Whatever money people think are in old cars is about one millionth the money in new cars.

When you have an amalgamated inventory there is absolutely no room for messing about with odd cars which only suit one company in one model for a couple of seasons. That is now a superfluous luxury whose cost needs to be passed on to the owner.

There are so many pressures on companies to survive, reduce price, find new markets and pay dividends that the idea of keeping parts for "future classics" is rather more quaint than it sounds.

Ultimately, what is really going to happen is that your spares will skyrocket in order to justfiy the unique shelf space they occupy. Spares for cars with shared technology will keep servicing the millions, perhaps billions of owners.

Mass production no longer operates on million, it has to be 10's 100's and 1000 million for the market to be satisfied.

What the government isnt telling you would be that India and China are about to become the world market and EU and USA are going to be in the middle ground for some time. Unsaturated markets are now determining global policy toward cars and spares.

The sentimental side has nothing to do with the business side.
 
'Standard parts' have been around for ages .

Look at items like lamps : a 21W tail/indicator lamp has been used on virtually every car since 12V electrics came in - doesn't matter if it's a Merc , BMW , Renault ..... most cars use any of a fairly small range of standard lamps .

As with those , so it is with many , many other parts : brake components , all sorts of electrical items , mechanical components like pistons , bearings , bushes etc etc etc

Yes some items like body panels , glass , trim will be specific to a certain make or even model - but this will always be the case until all cars are badge engineered clones and there really is only one 'standard car' made .

Unlike most of the mass-producers , Mercedes DO set themselves apart form the crowd in maintaining parts availability for virtually every car they ever made . Most parts that would keep a post WWII car off the road are indeed kept on a shelf somewhere : I can get a clutch or a windscreen for my 1957 219 within 48 hours - not too many other manufacturers can match that . Parts that are not 'on the shelf' can be manufactured to order by the Oldtimer Centre : they actually have craftsmen who will fabricate a 'one of' part from the original blueprints , although this service obviously comes at a cost .

As pointed out , the Mercedes-Benz of today is , in real terms , a much cheaper product than that of yesteryear : by that argument it is worth spending proportionately more on parts and maintenance on earlier models which were , in any case , built to last . This is why there is already a thriving economy in the many specialist companies who restore , service and maintain Classic Cars throughout all of the developed world , and beyond .

Unfortunately , cars are becoming disposable items in much the same way as many other consumer goods , and this can only be bad for the environment : whereas thirty years ago I might have sold someone a Michell turntable/SME arm/AT-OC9, Quad Amplifier , KEF loudspeakers , nowadays they would go down to the local discount warehouse and buy some one-piece consumer audio unit ; when it breaks down in 5 years time they will be told the unique parts are no longer available , on the other hand if my customer came back to me with a faulty Quad 405 (unlikely) I might need to put in a 2N3055 output device (standard part , and BTW I can't remember if that IS the device a 405 uses before anyone comes in with the correct part ) . The difference is a 30 year old Quad amplifier or Mercedes of the same era IS WORTH REPAIRING , whereas modern junk isn't .
 
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