Torque steer - still a thing?

[Bellow]

Posting this here as despite it being a 'steering' question, it's not a nuts and bolts how do I fix this question.
My question then is, does anything you are driving display torque steer. If so, under what driving scenario eg, wheelspin (one or both wheels), constant cornering, traversing bumps, etc. Any info welcome - especially the degree to which it annoys you (assuming it does).

 

[ALFAitalia]

Nope....mainly because I try and avoid FWD when I can!!. My ALFA 159 would do it a tiny bit under full throttle ....but it was quite a torquey thing for a 4 pot derv. Not something I would ever feel under normal driving.

 

[Bellow]

My ALFA 159 would do it a tiny bit under full throttle ....

In a straight line, cornering, over bumps, slippy road, etc? What provoked it?

 

[Bellow]

Meant to mention that it's info on newer cars (and esp FWD EVs) that I'm after. Which is why I didn't want this thread buried among the ones for rusty subframes - thanks.

 

[ALFAitalia]

Just in a straight line.....you would need to be a track to be accelerating hard enough out of a corner to get torque steer.....and then under steer is all you are going to experience.

 

[Bellow]

Just in a straight line.....

To any particular side - or generally wayward?

 

[Bobby Dazzler]

I do have an FWD EV (Fiat 500e) - I’ll try to remember to do some experimentation for you

 

[Bellow]

I do have an FWD EV (Fiat 500e) - I’ll try to remember to do some experimentation for you

Any steer effects that change with power on/off transitions is what I'm looking for especially cornering hard (with roll) and waywardness over bumps - the TS that is attributable to driveshaft angularity (rather than steering offset).
Really trying to ascertain if TS is still a feature of modern day cars and curious if any of it can be, or is, eliminated by electronics. I'd expect TC to deal with TS due to wheelspin (steering offset derived) but wondering if electronicisation of the steering is used to counter TC.

 

[carat 3.6]

One of my customers has a 2016 Astra SRI Turbo, in a straight line you can feel it pulling the steering wheel on hard acceleration.

 

[Bellow]

One of my customers has a 2016 Astra SRI Turbo, in a straight line you can feel it pulling the steering wheel on hard acceleration.

Does it pull consistently to the same side? And if so - which side?
(I've seen videos from the USA where the cars pull to the right - but US roads are cambered differently from ours.)

 

[BIGDOG]

My Mrs’ Mini does it, accelerate briskly out of a bend and it seems to ‘float’.

 

[ALFAitalia]

Does it pull consistently to the same side? And if so - which side?
(I've seen videos from the USA where the cars pull to the right - but US roads are cambered differently from ours.)

Camber does not affect it....it will pull to whichever side has the shortest driveshaft.....on my ALFA, like most FWD cars, that was the left.

 

[Bellow]

Camber does not affect it....it will pull to whichever side has the shortest driveshaft.....on my ALFA, like most FWD cars, that was the left.

Your Alfa pulled to the left - in the USA similar pulls to the right.

Equal length shafts - no?

2x Drive Shafts Front for Alfa Romeo 147 937 156 932 2001-2010 46308024 46308023 | eBay UK{GCLID}&_trkparms=ispr%3D1&amdata=enc%3A1dvLg_XNcSeeTHMfECVDR-Q41&gad_source=1&gad_campaignid=20747180044&gbraid=0AAAAADmMgihsUFBw7_KZTz_1TISE6QLhP&gclid=CjwKCAjwvO7CBhAqEiwA9q2YJfMm-XJIqiZU9hFIFosGYHTM9QDlOPSklmgq5x358xcHXvMCyEJt5BoCCekQAvD_BwE

 

[alabbasi]

If you have a front wheel drive car with transverse engine, it will have unequal torque distribution due to the length of the driveshafts being different....unless the motor makes no torque of course.

 

[Bellow]

The unequal length driveshaft cause due to different torsional stiffnesses is a myth. The two sources are steering axis offset at hub level and, the torque generated at 90 degrees to the included angle of the outer CV joint due to the upward or downward shaft inclination. That is influenced by driveshaft length in that the included angle is different for each and thus the generated torque differs from side to side. Typically that aspect is at its worst in straight line low gear acceleration where chassis lift angles the shaft as described.
Were the torsional stiffness the issue it would be very simply remedied by increasing the wall thickness of the longer shaft. And, torque steer also occurs with equal length shafts. Witness how heavy the steering of a Citroen 2CV is turning tight in a low gear power on. Lift the throttle and the steering returns to featherlight.

 

[ALFAitalia]

That's not torque steer....and when you have the FWD cars with equal length shafts...like the old Audis with the longitudinal engines you don't get torque steer.

Torque steer - Wikipedia

en.m.wikipedia.org

 

[alabbasi]

The unequal length driveshaft cause due to different torsional stiffnesses is a myth.

Ahh okay then I must have imagined it

 

[Bellow]

That's not torque steer....and when you have the FWD cars with equal length shafts...like the old Audis with the longitudinal engines you don't get torque steer.

Torque steer - Wikipedia

en.m.wikipedia.org

'' The main component of torque steer occurs when the torques in the driveshaft and the hub are summed vectorially, giving a resultant torque vector around the steering pivot axis (kingpin). These torques can be substantial, and in the case of shafts making equal angles to the hub shafts, will oppose one another at the steering rack, and so will cancel. ''

The above from your linked article - and is what I already said:

and, the torque generated at 90 degrees to the included angle of the outer CV joint due to the upward or downward shaft inclination. That is influenced by driveshaft length in that the included angle is different for each and thus the generated torque differs from side to side.

 

[Bellow]

That's not torque steer....and when you have the FWD cars with equal length shafts...like the old Audis with the longitudinal engines you don't get torque steer.

Torque steer - Wikipedia

en.m.wikipedia.org

A link in your linked article >> https://www.caranddriver.com/featur...uckle-and-gm-hiper-strut-explained-tech-dept/

All about offsets, nothing about driveshaft lengths. Which is what I already said.

The two sources are steering axis offset at hub level and,

 

[ALFAitalia]

Ok.....but most articles on torque steer, including the one I quoted DO mention about torque steer being affected by shaft lengths....not only because a longer shaft has more twist which gives that initial kick through the steering wheel (which is why they are generally thicker walled in a effort to combat it)....but also they have to work at a different angle to the shorter side. As said....FWD cars with equal shafts don't suffer from TS. Believe what you wish.

To view this content we will need your consent to set third party cookies.
For more detailed information, see our cookies page.

Accept third party cookies