Towing a caravan . Cooling issues ?

[Delboy0127]

You might get away with just using XENTRY (Star) to change the towbar type (without having to change the module/wiring). I'd suggest using a MB specialist, not MB because I suspect they'll refuse!

Sincere thanks for help and guidance.

 

[ALFAitalia]

This also included a new 13 pin socket. Following fitment of the new Towbar a dashboard warning light came on , Which now constitutes a MOT failure as advised by Mercedes by email.
The car has been on the Star machine and Mercedes advice the only way to remove the warning is to switch off the Towbar electrics which then disconnects the wiring to the new socket.
It appears the company that fit the Tow bar used the existing wiring from the old socket and wired the new socket with this wiring, as I understand nothing else was changed

Which is also an MOT failure. The towbar and wiring is part of the test... if its there it has to work....and if it's removed the metal towbar had to be removed or be impossible to use.
So switching it off is not the answer.

 

[Delboy0127]

You might get away with just using XENTRY (Star) to change the towbar type (without having to change the module/wiring). I'd suggest using a MB specialist, not MB because I suspect they'll refuse!

Hi Jason Had a lot of thought on this one. This car came with a factory fit deployable towbar, meaning all the dedicated wiring is already in the car. So what would a new dedicated wiring loom do different. I think the answer lyes in the sensor that tells the system the Towbar is deployed. As to where that is can anyone help who is familiar with the Mercedes star system , or can anyone offer advice on this one.

 

[jasonh]

"Factory fit" towbars aren't always fitted in the factory. That's definitely the case with Lexus! They're just fitted by the manufacturer, or even dealer, before you get the car.

What you have is a towbar module\ecu that connects to the car's CAN bus and then has the wiring to the socket. The factory fit one will be an MB module and one that can deploy, retract and respond to the status of the deployable towbar. If the car isn't commanding the deployment, or querying the status of, the towbar then the module may still do exactly what you need. It all depends on the firmware inside the module, if for example it needs the "activate" command to turn on the 13 pin socket then it won't work. If the 13 pin socket is live all the time anyway then you could get away with the same module. If the same module is used for deployable and non-deployable towbars then you should be fine.

An aftermarket module (one that doesn't need coding in) is passive. It just listens to the CAN bus for commands to operate the indicators etc. It may inject a "bulb blown" message but it's not talking with the car with regard to the towbar being deployed or not deployed.

The people who fitted your towbar will have obviously disconnected the wires to the towbar (rather than the 13 pin socket). There probably will only be 2 or 3 wires, one may be GND, one to power the motor and one for feedback. It's the feedback one that needs the fudge. Although if the module is really clever it may also be monitoring the current to the motor.

Unfortunately none of the above is definitive, it needs further investigation.

 

[Delboy0127]

"Factory fit" towbars aren't always fitted in the factory. That's definitely the case with Lexus! They're just fitted by the manufacturer, or even dealer, before you get the car.

What you have is a towbar module\ecu that connects to the car's CAN bus and then has the wiring to the socket. The factory fit one will be an MB module and one that can deploy, retract and respond to the status of the deployable towbar. If the car isn't commanding the deployment, or querying the status of, the towbar then the module may still do exactly what you need. It all depends on the firmware inside the module, if for example it needs the "activate" command to turn on the 13 pin socket then it won't work. If the 13 pin socket is live all the time anyway then you could get away with the same module. If the same module is used for deployable and non-deployable towbars then you should be fine.

An aftermarket module (one that doesn't need coding in) is passive. It just listens to the CAN bus for commands to operate the indicators etc. It may inject a "bulb blown" message but it's not talking with the car with regard to the towbar being deployed or not deployed.

The people who fitted your towbar will have obviously disconnected the wires to the towbar (rather than the 13 pin socket). There probably will only be 2 or 3 wires, one may be GND, one to power the motor and one for feedback. It's the feedback one that needs the fudge. Although if the module is really clever it may also be monitoring the current to the motor.

Unfortunately none of the above is definitive, it needs further investigation.

Good morning Jason

We are on the same wavelength 100% My near neighbour owns a restoration company and employs a guy that does all of the rewiring in classic cars along with the wiring to accident damaged vehicles He also has access to the Mercedes Star system that he very conversant with. I have printed off a full Oris towbar installation and wiring diagram that may also assist. ORIS-NO. 10076991 WEB SITE was PF Jones Could I ask if you have a minute to perhaps have a look and Identify the module you are referring to, you have been most helpful for which I thank you most sincerely .

 

[jasonh]

Please can you give me a link or attach the PDF to your post. I had a look at PF Jones but navigating to the document you mention wasn't obvious.

 

[Delboy0127]

Please can you give me a link or attach the PDF to your post. I had a look at PF Jones but navigating to the document you mention wasn't obvious.

https://www.rameder.eu/out/media/193641-36202-1-samples-v2.pdf
MERCEDES-BENZ E-CLASS Oris towbar retractable incl. 13 pin E-set - year of make 01.16-10.23 | Rameder towbar.
Scroll down to Installation instructions right hand side column

My Car Mercedes Eclass 220d S213 10/16 on ESTATE

Sincere thanks for your very helpful input

 

[jasonh]

So I think you're saying this is the effectively the original installation. If so I'd be looking to do this:

The white module labelled CFC looks to be dealing with the 13 pin socket, indicators etc. Leave that alone, should be fine with a retractable and non-retractable towbar.

Fortunately the physical towbar operation isn't part of the same module, it's done by the black module marked JAEGER STC.

What I'd try is unplugging the black module and coding the car for a fixed towbar (you'll probably have to "remove" the deployable towbar first with XENTRY before then "adding" a fixed towbar).

 

[Delboy0127]

So I think you're saying this is the effectively the original installation. If so I'd be looking to do this:

The white module labelled CFC looks to be dealing with the 13 pin socket, indicators etc. Leave that alone, should be fine with a retractable and non-retractable towbar.

Fortunately the physical towbar operation isn't part of the same module, it's done by the black module marked JAEGER STC.

What I'd try is unplugging the black module and coding the car for a fixed towbar (you'll probably have to "remove" the deployable towbar first with XENTRY before then "adding" a fixed towbar).

Jason you have been very helpful for which I thank you most sincerely.

I have to wait a couple of weeks to get it onto the star machine.

I will post a reply to you has to how we get on once completed

 

[Delboy0127]

See below

 

[Delboy0127]

So I think you're saying this is the effectively the original installation. If so I'd be looking to do this:

The white module labelled CFC looks to be dealing with the 13 pin socket, indicators etc. Leave that alone, should be fine with a retractable and non-retractable towbar.

Fortunately the physical towbar operation isn't part of the same module, it's done by the black module marked JAEGER STC.

What I'd try is unplugging the black module and coding the car for a fixed towbar (you'll probably have to "remove" the deployable towbar first with XENTRY before then "adding" a fixed towbar).

(Confirming what you have said Jason they say only Mercedes can remove the factory fit towbar coding from the original coding as the car left the factory.

Further developments My Mercedes has been into a qualified Technician that has availability to Star system and panel that advises on unsolved problems.
The out come appears they have managed to delete the large Trailer coupling check lock sign,in the middle of the dash that came on when ignition first switched on.
The Tow Ball warning lamp that appears in the speedo dial cannot be removed by Star.
What they believe needs to be done is, to remove the Tow bar coding from the original factory build coding as it left the factory with a factory fit deployable tow bar.
They can then introduce the new tow bar with coding via star.
Can anyone offer any further help and further advice.
This has to be resolved as Mercedes have advised me the car will fail MOT due in 4 weeks time.
Waiting on a reply from Mercedes Cheltenham has to how we go about getting this factory coding changed

 

[Pontoneer]

I have just had fitted a tow bar with dedicated electrics to my used W213 estate diesel. The MB dealers suggested that the cost for them to do it would frighten me. (it did !) so I went to a tow bar specialist on their suggestion .
I did question my local dealers and was told that the factory fitted upgrades are to permit towing the Maximum weight up an Alp in 40c temperatures. I have no plans to do that !

On a caravanning club forum I recommendet the company I used and then got dire warnings about my failure to have the 'proper MB cooling upgrades for the engine and gearbox'.

My question is about other's experiences about going down the road I have. Is there any record of problems resulting from towing well under the 2200 KG limit which MB list for this model ? (My caravan has a mtpw of 1300 kg.

Never had any problems with engine cooling on any of my cars , although I had a number of large caravans .

I did , however , fit a Kenlowe transmission oil cooler to my W123 280TE on advice of a number of others , being the first automatic I towed with . The Kenlowe was inexpensive to buy and easy to fit just in front of the main radiator .

Kenlowe also make electric cooling fans which you can use to supplement your existing engine cooling if you happen to see the temperature climbing . The other thing to do is check if different ( larger ) radiators are specced for your car in markets with hotter climates since these things can vary by region , and fitting a larger radiator would give you more cooling - but only if it turned out to be a problem - which I don't think it will .

 

[Pontoneer]

@audiavant You cant tow the maximum allowed towing weight in this country anyway. In the UK you cant tow a caravan (or anything else) that's heavier than the towing car regardless of what's claimed by the maker.....Example....My Jeep has a 3.5 ton tow limit....but "only" weights 2.1 ton....so 2.1 ton is its legal limit in this country. The max tow weight is just telling you what it can tow without breaking......a bit like your cars claimed top speed.....it will go that fast but you are not allowed to do it on the road in the UK! Some (gutless!) cars have a max tow lower than their kerb weight....in which case that's fine to tow that much. Certain organisations, like the caravan club, will advise you not to tow above 85% percent of your cars kerb weight.....good advice but as caravans get heavier and cars get lighter is getting more difficult to do and it and has no substance in law anyway. If you do tow something too heavy you risk the wrath of the VOSA inspector (ask me how I know!!)....a group of blokes with a surgically removed sense of humour if ever there were any. But I was towing a customers van, with their plate (not mine) on the back, that was little too heavy and with no mirrors....so I was asking for it. Took all my salesman's patter to talk my way out of that one....but I did!!!!

But nobody is saying that are they?

Really? Could you let me know which cars these are?

w124 estates , which generally had a kerbweight of around 1600Kg , but permitted trailer weight of 2100Kg , as do most Mercs .