Tuner Bolts keep coming loose

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Never seems to end with this car..........

Heads Up though there will be a set of freshly powdercoated wheels for sale

Wondering if changing wheel hubs is a big job on W211
 
"Wondering if changing wheel hubs is a big job on W211...."

Depends on how many tools you have and how handy you are with them , new hubs will need new bearings etc.....

My guess is the aftermarket bolts have stretched . If thats the case they are either poor quality or the torque wrench is not calibrated properly . My other concern is you may have damaged the wheels by fitting the wrong bolts, at 130Nm the wrong profile on the bolt could damage the seat area on the wheel hole forever.

Making the wheels scrap metal.
 
If you have the original wheels and bolts, refit them and see if the problem goes away. If it does then I think you can assume that the hubs are not causing the issue. Replacing the hubs would be playing parts darts without ruling out other components first. Changing the hubs could also mean fitting new bearings and could get very costly.
 
"Wondering if changing wheel hubs is a big job on W211...."

Depends on how many tools you have and how handy you are with them , new hubs will need new bearings etc.....

My guess is the aftermarket bolts have stretched . If thats the case they are either poor quality or the torque wrench is not calibrated properly . My other concern is you may have damaged the wheels by fitting the wrong bolts, at 130Nm the wrong profile on the bolt could damage the seat area on the wheel hole forever.

Making the wheels scrap metal.

Cheers Pete, I brought a new torque adapter tool which the certificate shows it has a 2% difference from target. Also I think you may have a valid point about the damage to the surface. The wheel bolts were the same ones for the last 2 years that I got with the wheels. I did fit new ones today, same length as OEM bolts so will see if it holds or not with them. If not then yes I will go back to OEM wheels.

If you have the original wheels and bolts, refit them and see if the problem goes away. If it does then I think you can assume that the hubs are not causing the issue. Replacing the hubs would be playing parts darts without ruling out other components first. Changing the hubs could also mean fitting new bearings and could get very costly.

Sound plan, will give this a go. At the moment they are getting refurbished too. I called them and they confirmed they don't powdercoat the inner hub and with 5.0 star rating and only £260 for a set of 4 wheels. Not bad.
 
So, popped out for a short spin today. Nothing really amiss. Came back parked up and a few bolts required a 1/4" turn to get back to 130nm. 2 were a lot more loose. Front end wasn't that bad but all still required additional 1/4" turn to get it back to torque. I have a feeling the wheel hub thread might be damaged so not holding on. Looks like a good half of the threads are getting through so.

But not worth the risk and am going back to OEM wheels now. what a shame.

If the hub threads are damaged then refitting the original wheels will not solve anything.

Could be inferior quality bolts starting to strip ?

Could be ,as you say, damaged hub threads.

Could be excessive powder coating on the bolt seats not letting the bolts tighten properly - face to face.

Take the wheels of and screw an original bolt into each one of the holes and see how they feel , to much up/down/left/right/in/out movement means the threads on the hub are U/S.

K
 
That doesn't sound promising. You need to check the bolt lengths and thread engagement.

With an original wheel bolt inserted in an original wheel, measure the length of the exposed thread from the inner mating face of the wheel to the end of the bolt. Now do the same with the aftermarket wheel and bolt. Is that measurement the same or shorter?
Do this and also inspect the threads in the hub for damage. Run an OEM bolt through them to the depth ascertained above and ensure they move freely, without binding or excessive slackness.
 
Changed all the bolts of both rear wheels to new ones. Though to be honest I can't see much difference in the pics, when I took them out it looked as is the old bolts tapered side were stretched

New bolt is the forth one from the left.

Will take them off later to see thread engagement with OEM bolts.



IMG_5659.jpgIMG_5660.jpgIMG_5661.jpg
 
So have just come back from a 30minute drive and the bolts seem to still be within the torque spec (130nm). Will carry out a few more runs to see if it stays put or not. But before fitting the new bolts I used a scotch pads and scuffed up the bolts a bit and the bolt holes on the wheels too to give it grip.
 
So have just come back from a 30minute drive and the bolts seem to still be within the torque spec (130nm). Will carry out a few more runs to see if it stays put or not. But before fitting the new bolts I used a scotch pads and scuffed up the bolts a bit and the bolt holes on the wheels too to give it grip.
On the used bolts shown they look to have possibly some sort of grease on the 1st 7 or 8 threads
 
How to read the wheel markings? » Oponeo.co.uk

Wheel Nuts & Wheel Bolts

If the wheel bolts are the wrong profile then they will only touch the wheel seat in a contact line rather than a contact area- so they won't grip no mater how much torque you apply. My guess is that during the wheel refurbishing process that the wheel bolt seats were re-profiled so that your original bolts no longer fitted correctly?-Since that's the only thing that has changed.
 
As per Grober's post - something changed in the period between removal for powder coating and refitting and his suggestion of bolt seats being re-cut and KennyN's suggestion of powder coat on the bolt seats have not been addressed.
Neither has whether the new spigot rings aren't causing a problem. If they are not performing their intended function (for any reason) you now have 'lug centric' wheels and they require re-torquing after 100-150 miles of driving after initial tightening. IMO, they also require more care when initially mounting the wheels eg. as tight as possible before lowering from the jack.
 
You should not use lugcentric anyway....the bolts job is just to clamp the wheel to the hub....it's the spiggots job to take the weight of the car. Lugcentric wheels always have a tendency to work loose.....especially on the nearside of the car.....which is why some older cars have left hand thread bolts on the nearside wheels of the car.
 
I'm still in doubt but after the drive yday the bolts remained in torque spec. I want to drive it a few more times on Motorway etc to confirm definitely all is well. I have taken the advise mentioned before and will clean the threads out as the old bolts did look quite dirty. It looked like brake dust to be honest. I've never put any grease on these like copper etc. The camera isn't picking it up but when I put it side by side the old ones look a bit stretched or a bit dented (if thats correct term) around the part where the thread meets tapered edge.
 
Hate to say it but this is why insurance companies don’t like mods! :doh:

Hope the OP manages to resolve this issue though :)
 
I'm still in doubt but after the drive yday the bolts remained in torque spec. I want to drive it a few more times on Motorway etc to confirm definitely all is well. I have taken the advise mentioned before and will clean the threads out as the old bolts did look quite dirty. It looked like brake dust to be honest. I've never put any grease on these like copper etc. The camera isn't picking it up but when I put it side by side the old ones look a bit stretched or a bit dented (if thats correct term) around the part where the thread meets tapered edge.
So you’re going to drive on a motorway to see if the wheels come loose - interesting plan.
 
So you’re going to drive on a motorway to see if the wheels come loose - interesting plan.

Not Really. I've actually booked the car in to get the wheel hub threads checked out for any cross threading and to clean it out. Reason I mentioned Motorway was due to poor choice of words to be honest. I last drove it on a dual carriage way and the bolts on the did not loosen. So will go out for a few more runs and check after few miles etc.
 
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I've actually booked the car in to get the wheel hub threads checked out for any cross threading and to clean it out.

Cross threading will be visually obvious , plus they will struggle to screw in fully by hand if the threads on the hub or bolts are in any way damaged.

All the garage will do , apart from take your ££ , is check visually the threads are not crossed and possibly put a small wire brush into the holes in the hub.

RE your post 27 - i dont think 140nm will stretch a 14mm dia bolt unless it was made from Edam in which case the cheesy threads would have stripped first.

FWIW , seem you are heading off in loads of different directions and not getting any conclusive answers.

Does the full bolt taper locate completely onto the wheel taper ?

Does the entire thread stick through the wheel or is there a part of the unthreaded part sticking through ?

Do the wheel bolt hole tapers look clean or is there a build up of powder coating on them ?

Problems like the ones you are experiencing are pretty easy to solve , but the correct diagnostic process needs to be followed , opposed to trying to herd cats.

K
 
Cross threading will be visually obvious , plus they will struggle to screw in fully by hand if the threads on the hub or bolts are in any way damaged.

All the garage will do , apart from take your ££ , is check visually the threads are not crossed and possibly put a small wire brush into the holes in the hub.

RE your post 27 - i dont think 140nm will stretch a 14mm dia bolt unless it was made from Edam in which case the cheesy threads would have stripped first.

FWIW , seem you are heading off in loads of different directions and not getting any conclusive answers.

Does the full bolt taper locate completely onto the wheel taper ?

Does the entire thread stick through the wheel or is there a part of the unthreaded part sticking through ?

Do the wheel bolt hole tapers look clean or is there a build up of powder coating on them ?

Problems like the ones you are experiencing are pretty easy to solve , but the correct diagnostic process needs to be followed , opposed to trying to herd cats.

K
Just to add to that, are you absolutely certain that the wheels have a taper seat and not a radius seat?
 

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