V6 Diesel software update recall

Isdyl

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My car went in for a service and MOT on Wednesday 3rd June, delayed from 8th April due to pandemic.

On arrival I was presented with the paperwork and advised that there is a software update for the car that is voluntary, I had intended to have this done but for some reason changed my mind whilst speaking with the service advisor, my car has run faultlessly and I guess in the back of my mind it worriied me something may upset the performance.

The advisor said that the update could affect the mpg by up to 5mpg.

When I declined the update he did say I could have it done FOC at any time and that in his estimation around 70% of customers decline the update.

I do feel bad as I believe that this update makes the car greener although it is already an EU6 rated car.

I may yet return to have this done.

Robin

Thanks Robin - could you please tell me which dealership this was please and if possible the name of the advisor who told you about the 5mpg decrease please? MB Brooklands have categorically denied that it would have any effect on the mpg, and I also have an email from the above mentioned Harry Owrid of UK Customer Services quoting a statement from Daimler AG '.....has no relevant impact on the certified fuel consumption and CO2 emissions.....'.
If I can get some information contradicting this I would be very grateful.

Dylan
 

Headhurts

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Sorry I cannot remember the advisors name.

A phone call to them asking for advice on update to software may elicit said information.

Robin
 

Isdyl

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Mercedes Benz, Norwich, part of the Group 1 Automotive.

Sorry I cannot remember the advisors name.

A phone call to them asking for advice on update to software may elicit said information.

Robin

Thanks Robin. My car (350cdi CLS Shooting brake) had the update and I have never seen better than 38mpg even on a long motorway cruise at 70mph.
 

Col350cdi

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I chased MB Erdington via email last night to see how my technical issue was progressing with Germany. A Service Advisor called me this morning to arrange a courtesy car for a week whilst they carry out further tests on my car. Car goes in on Tuesday 30th June for 7 days. I'll update again once it's back.
 

Col350cdi

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Took my car in to MB Erdington on Tuesday this week. I've just received a rather impersonal email:

Dear Mr Yates
Thank you for bringing your vehicle to us here at Mercedes Benz of Erdington.

We have carried out technical procedures that Mercedes Benz have requested and supplied them with the relevant data.

Following extensive cross referencing and data matching, Mercedes Benz have confirmed that the updated completed on your previous visit has no affected your fuel consumption (referenced against vehicles of the same age).

They also confirm that all updates applied to the vehicle conform with Federal Motor Transport Authority regulations and conform with EU Regulations. We are therefore unable to remove said update and apply any old software.

There are no further updates or adaptations available to the vehicle.

Because of this, we are unable to continue further.

Your vehicle can be collected from 8AM tomorrow morning.

Guess I'm off down the Ombudsman route then...
 

Isdyl

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I think you'll need to make your complaint towards Mercedes Europe though as I think the dealers are just following instructions from above. I may be wrong though, and interested to hear how you get on. Good luck.
 

190

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And to think we are moving rapidly to the Tesla type situation where software upgrades will be down loaded automatically without your knowledge. The attitude that the manufacturer knows best is becoming all pervading. Look to windows 10 as the fore runner both for the strategy and the sometimes less than perfect end results. Of course if they really did know best and never made mistakes there wouldn't be a problem.
 

W1ghty

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Thanks Robin. My car (350cdi CLS Shooting brake) had the update and I have never seen better than 38mpg even on a long motorway cruise at 70mph.
Might as well buy a CL500 , that will get nearly that on a motorway run :rolleyes:
 

Col350cdi

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I agree with regard to where my complaint should be directed, but the Ombudsman appears to only be interested in garages and not manufacturers for service/repair issues. I've raised a case, it was a fairly simple process as I have an email trail that I've been able to provide.
On the way back from the dealer this morning my E350cdi Estate recorded 39.2 over 30 miles at an average speed of 55mph. Not bad, but I'm still convinced that it used to be better.... Still didn't select 7th until over 73mph though...
 

Col350cdi

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Update: the Motor Ombudsman has confirmed that the dealership and Mercedes Benz Cars UK Ltd are only registered for Sales and not service issues, therefore they are unable to assist. They have suggested the CAB, but I don't think I'll continue down that route. I may write directly to MB Cars UK and explain the situation to them. I don't hold out much hope though.

A remap may be the only option...
 

markjay

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This is a not-uncommon issue, I think.

Whenever we have a visit from British Gas, they point-out that certain things are 'not to current standard'.

This means that they won't remove them, but won't service them either. And in the event that they have fitted something we didn't want, they will remove it and block-off the gas supply, but they won't revert it to its previous 'not to current standard' state.

So I think that once the software update has been carried-out, the dealer will not be able to reverse the process and bring the car back to its original noncompliant form.

Let's assume (theoretically) that this matter got to the courts. I can see two issues here:

The first, is whether the dealer had the right to install a software update on your vehicle without your permission? There are two possible scenarios where the answer would be Yes - the first if it's buried in the T&C that you signed when booking the car in, and the second is if there was a legal requirement on them to do so.

The second is - assuming you have not consented to software updates by signing the T&C, and that the dealer was under no legal obligation to install the software update - what is your damage here? Keeping in mind that civil courts deal mostly with demonstrable financial damages, and not so much with the rights and wrongs of life in general. Your damage could be poorer fuel consumption - but can you prove it? MB says the software update does not affect fuel consumption, will you be able to produce a report by a reputable and accredited suitably-qualified engineer who will say (or, better still, prove) the opposite?

And, ultimately, the court might take a dim view of an enthusiast who insists on polluting the planet for no obvious reason other than his claim that not allowing him to do so, is infringing on his rights....

So in short, I agree with your conclusion, it's time to move-on.
 

TeddyRuxpin

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Yes, the MB dealer and MBUK will not help in this instance. Communication with them is over.

However there is a company/legal action taking MB to court, but I'm a bit wary about signing up for it. Has anyone looked into this?

FWIW: both my father's 2010 E350 (265bhp) and my own 2009 231BHP have had the update.

His E350 returned 56mpg on a (very) calm run from Cardiff to London recently. This was from my house to Chiswick roundabout, and included a stop for petrol (i.e. I didn't reset it on the motorway). After a getting through some London traffic, it was at 54+MPG once I'd reached my destination. Pretty impressive and more than acceptable for a 2 ton 3L V6 diesel if you ask me. You do have to manually knock it into 7th on the motorway, however.

I know that the 265BHP version was always a little more fuel efficient than mine, but my 231BHP E350 would never be able to do this nowadays. I once got 54MPG in mine London to Cardiff pre software update, but that was with loads of 50mph average speed checks. So, I'm wondering if it's possible that the efficiency hit has affected the 231BHP versions more?

I'm actually more bothered by the not switching into 7th gear until 74mph (unless you accelerate really hard) thing at the moment.

It's worth noting that a remap alone will not get rid of the 7th gear thing. However... if you contact Big Fish Tuning, they seem to be the only tuners that are offering the option to revert the engine back to the pre-MB software update state. They will also tune the car for you at the same time, if you wish. Give them a call.
 

markjay

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Hmm... compulsory update.... waiting for someone to say that MB are secretly injecting a microchip into your Adblue tank..... :doh:
 

markjay

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...I'm actually more bothered by the not switching into 7th gear until 74mph (unless you accelerate really hard) thing at the moment.

It's worth noting that a remap alone will not get rid of the 7th gear thing....

Is your gearbox the 7g? If so, how you manually put it in 7th gear - do you have the flappy pedals option? And what kind of RPM are you getting when cruising at 7omph on 7th gear?
 

TeddyRuxpin

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Yes, it has flappy paddles. Yes, 7G. 70mph is 1700rpm in 7th gear. ~2000rpm in 6th.
 

markjay

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Yes, it has flappy paddles. Yes, 7G. 70mph is 1700rpm in 7th gear. ~2000rpm in 6th.

1700 rpm on a torquey Diesel is very reasonable (might be a bit low for a 4-Cyl petrol).

It's a moot point for me though, my car does not have flappy pedals and so I can only manually shift it up to 6th.

No idea what gear it's using when cruising at 70mph (though I can probably figure it out if I put my mind to it).
 
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"Harry Owrid of UK Customer Services quoting a statement from Daimler AG '.....has no relevant impact on the certified fuel consumption and CO2 emissions...."


If that is true, why is the update needed????
 

TeddyRuxpin

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Just 'caught' an advert on the TV from across the room, about the MB claim/taking MB to court... missed the details, but it's interesting that it's mainstream enough to hit.... late night TV.

Anyone pursuing this line of action?
 

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