Veg Oil

[jrggino]

Hi, Has anyone been using veg oil-sunflower oil in a E300TD. I just would like to know if its really ok, and that i dont cause problems like oil seals in deisel pumps ect!
Anyones thoughts on this subject welcomed.

 

[Seamster15]

There are a few members here running on Veg, some for many 1000's of miles. They will be along soon enough.

 

[124fan]

Not sure if it was just coincidence or not, but my 1997 C250td needed all seals replaced after a couple of months of using 25% veg oil, they do say it softens the seals etc, so they start leaking.

But once seals sorted, the car runs great and I've had no other probs. Hope that helps.

Cheers

 

[nickcc101]

I know that you can buy used veg oil that has been through a filtration process but the problem you have is that your exhaust smells like a chip shop. Also you cannot use any fuel if duty has not been paid for use on a public road. Customs will prosecute if you are stopped at a roadside check or the police smell your chippy exhaust.

 

[TonyVianoAmbiente]

I know that you can buy used veg oil that has been through a filtration process but the problem you have is that your exhaust smells like a chip shop. Also you cannot use any fuel if duty has not been paid for use on a public road. Customs will prosecute if you are stopped at a roadside check or the police smell your chippy exhaust.

This is complete nonsense. Thanks to a statutory instrument passed in 2007, you can use up to 2500 litres per year of biofuel per year perfectly legally and without paying a single penny in duty.

Please get your facts right, otherwise don't post on a subject you clearly know less than nothing about.

 

[TonyVianoAmbiente]

Hi, Has anyone been using veg oil-sunflower oil in a E300TD. I just would like to know if its really ok, and that i dont cause problems like oil seals in deisel pumps ect!
Anyones thoughts on this subject welcomed.

I have a 1995 E300 Diesel with the high output M606 24V engine. I am running on 80% rapeseed oil mixed with 20% DERV. I went up to 90% but had problems with poor starting in cold weather, and rough running until the engine warmed up, so went back to 80%.

I have had to change the fuel filter because rapeseed oil cleans out all the muck that DERV leaves behind in the tank and fuel lines. I have had no fuel leaks of any kind. Apparently Mercedes use seals that work well with veg oil.

I don't know whether using SVO (straight vegetable oil) would work in your car. But I do know that rapeseed oil is better than sunflower oil for biofuel applications, as it has a lower viscosity, and the viscosity of the SVO is what caused my cold starting and running problems.

As the weather warms up I will be reverting to using 90% SVO with 10% DERV.

I use rapeseed oil from Tesco which is costing me 74p per litre in 3 litre plastic bottles. I park at the Tesco recycling centre, fill my tank with the oil I just bought in the supermarket and dispose of the bottles in the relevant recycling bin. It takes a few mintes but it is painless and I am saving 35p per litre on DERV prices. You can get cheaper oil, but not from retail outlets.

The car has never run as smoothly as it does on rapeseed oil. If you reflill with 100% DERV, as I has to do recently, the engine sounds like a bag of nails by comparison.

 

[jrggino]

Rapeseed oil

Tonye300d, Thanks for your help, i did some research and found out about the 2500 liters and was fully aware. This is good news.
I will try this oil, i run a citeron zx in the uk on veg oil, but i do a 50-50 mix due to the filter problems. Its an old banger so i was not to worried about this car, but my merc i do.
I was very concerned about the seals in the fuel pump as i dont want to cause a problem and xtra money issues with fixing what i cause.
I will look for rapeceed oil, i did not notice any in tesco.
I know you are in the know, but just in case you did not, i found that in the oil section of mystore they old very small quantitys, but if you go to the asian section of currys and spices you will find very large 15 litre drums of oil.
I just purchased 30 lit at 76ppl . Do you know anywhere were i can buy cheaper rc-oil!
Does your performance increase or fuel economy!!!!.
I do know that the out put from the exhaust is better for us, even if it does smell of a chip shop.

Kind regards
Jim

 

[TonyVianoAmbiente]

I was very concerned about the seals in the fuel pump as i dont want to cause a problem and xtra money issues with fixing what i cause.
I will look for rapeceed oil, i did not notice any in tesco.
I know you are in the know, but just in case you did not, i found that in the oil section of mystore they old very small quantitys, but if you go to the asian section of currys and spices you will find very large 15 litre drums of oil.
I just purchased 30 lit at 76ppl . Do you know anywhere were i can buy cheaper rc-oil!
Does your performance increase or fuel economy!!!!.
I do know that the out put from the exhaust is better for us, even if it does smell of a chip shop.

Hi Jim,

The pump is certainly a potential problem in later CDI units. My E300 Diesel does not have such problems because the pump is of an earlier type. I cannot comment on your car because my technical knowledge doen't extend beyond my own car. If you search for the dicussion thread entitled "Biodiesel" you will find more information.

Tesco sells own brand "Pure vegetable oil" but if you look at the ingredients it states it is rapeseed oil. It is cheaper than sunflower oil and more suitable as an SVO. Tesco sells 3 litre bottles for £2.21 making it 73.7p per litre.

Until a few weeks ago, Sainsbury's were sellinjg Pura brand rapeseed oil for 56p, but that supply has dried up. They sell their own brand rapeseed oil for 78p per litre (same price in Tesco, Morrisons, Lidl) or for £2.21 per 3 litres (same as the others again). I suspect there is a price ring.

You can buy 15 litre containers of oil from Costco and Makro but the price is still about the same. I am told that Bookers have a cheaper line of rapeseed oil but you need to be a trader to get a Bookers account.

Occasionally there are suppliers on eBay UK who offer large 201 litre drums of rapeseed oil but the price depends on what the highest bidders are prepared to pay.

On performance and fuel economy, I am pretty sure that both are unaffected. However, I did experience a slight loss of power before the fuel filter was changed.

I hope this answers some of your questions, however I must avoid recommending biofuel for your car as I don't have the technical knowledge needed to say whether or not it will work.

Tony

 

[124fan]

This is complete nonsense. Thanks to a statutory instrument passed in 2007, you can use up to 2500 litres per year of biofuel per year perfectly legally and without paying a single penny in duty.

Please get your facts right, otherwise don't post on a subject you clearly know less than nothing about.

I'm not wanting a slanging match, but I just wanted to say I feel that this reply is a bit too sharp IMHO, nickcc101 answered a question to the best of his ability and gets hammered I have been hammered like this, and its not nice. We are trying to help one another on this forum.

Cheers

 

[jrggino]

To All

Guys listen, all your inputs are fantastic, its great that you are all trying to help. Thanks to you all. I agree we are all here to try and help, ok non of us are experts, and yes its nice for you all to say so, so the ownus is on me to make sure i do more searching.
Everything you have all said has been valuble. I am a Motor vehicle tech, but every machine is different, and i am not an expert on any modle, so you guys are the best to talk to mechanic or not.
Cheers to you all your all helpfull.
Have you heard of anyone using the water4you system! yes runs on a water kit!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Jim

 

[nickcc101]

This is complete nonsense. Thanks to a statutory instrument passed in 2007, you can use up to 2500 litres per year of biofuel per year perfectly legally and without paying a single penny in duty.

Please get your facts right, otherwise don't post on a subject you clearly know less than nothing about.

As Jim says none of us are experts, i am only passing on the info that i have read in various trade journals and IAM magazine. I am sorry if i have upset you but we are all entitled to our opinion even you.

 

[GazCaff]

Tonye300d, Thanks for your help, i did some research and found out about the 2500 liters and was fully aware. This is good news.
I will try this oil, i run a citeron zx in the uk on veg oil, but i do a 50-50 mix due to the filter problems. Its an old banger so i was not to worried about this car, but my merc i do.
I was very concerned about the seals in the fuel pump as i dont want to cause a problem and xtra money issues with fixing what i cause.
I will look for rapeceed oil, i did not notice any in tesco.
I know you are in the know, but just in case you did not, i found that in the oil section of mystore they old very small quantitys, but if you go to the asian section of currys and spices you will find very large 15 litre drums of oil.
I just purchased 30 lit at 76ppl . Do you know anywhere were i can buy cheaper rc-oil!
Does your performance increase or fuel economy!!!!.
I do know that the out put from the exhaust is better for us, even if it does smell of a chip shop.

Kind regards
Jim

Rotary fuel pumps can be placed under greater stress due to the higher viscosity of rapeseed oil. The older straight five and six cylinder mercs use an in-line pump which can cope due to having individual plungers for each cylinder instead of a single distribution head. You may find that you will shorten the life of your Citroens fuel pump. You will also need to check that your seals will not be degraded by using rapeseed oil.

 

[SilverSaloon]

best to replace the O-rings on the fuel lines aswell as using veg will probably result in them leaking as most of these W124's will have pretty worn out o-rings anyway now and veg will be the last straw.

i have fitted VITON o-rings to mine - same size as the merc originals but they stand up to both diesel and veg oil

 

[TonyVianoAmbiente]

I had the O-rings on mine replaced yesterday with new Mercedes genuine items. The oil leak was getting worse by the day and the new O-rings have sorted the problem.

Mercedes original O-rings are equally suitable for vegetable oil and DERV. If you get parts from a motor factor it is important to make sure they are suitable for vegetable oil.

 

[SilverSaloon]

I had the O-rings on mine replaced yesterday with new Mercedes genuine items. The oil leak was getting worse by the day and the new O-rings have sorted the problem.

Mercedes original O-rings are equally suitable for vegetable oil and DERV. If you get parts from a motor factor it is important to make sure they are suitable for vegetable oil.

yeah i also heard that the merc parts are good for veg - but my dealer seemed confused when i asked for just the o-rings and said i have to order all the pipes aswell. i didnt really want to do this as the pipes do appear fine.

the viton o-rings cost £10 for a pack of 40 so i have plenty for both cars + spares.

 

[SilverSaloon]

i drove 300 miles on 100% veg the other day. ran fine. Topped up with diesel when i reached my destination though for the cold start the next day.

i think its still too cold for 100% (or near 100%) veg at the moment.

give it another month and you should be able to run the car un-modified (it single tank) on about 90% veg i reckon.

 

[SilverSaloon]

i'm now running and starting on near 100% veg.

i have also fitted a baby bottle warmer in an attempt to heat the fuel inside the fuel filter on a cold morning as per the 190 forum's advice HERE

here is a pic of it in my car:

 

[fredfloggle]

Tidy your wiring up, that is truly horrible.

 

[SilverSaloon]

Tidy your wiring up, that is truly horrible.

hehe - i know, i plan to - i havnt got round to that yet, just wanted to get it in there and working quick.

 

[230K]

Silversaloon

See your stopper on the top of the filter it seems to be leaking they do. You can replace it with an ordinary filter bolt and your leak will be sorted. Th Stopper bolt is expensive from memory, best just to put standard bolt in. The only downside is you have no way to manually stop the engine then.

230K