Veg Oil

[mark.t]

I am considering going 100% veg oil in my e300 td the fuel filter has just been changed when would it need changing again as it must be cleaning out all the crud from the tank ...+ what would you recommend for heating the filter ...baby's bottle heater ...or heat exchanger .... + should i take off the fan as Dieselmans done to add heat to the filter ....and sunflower oil veg oil is there a differance ..... can both be used ...i am with veg oil at the moment 50/50 mix .....with a blob of miller diesel power + sport (no less)

 

[TonyVianoAmbiente]

I am considering going 100% veg oil in my e300 td the fuel filter has just been changed when would it need changing again as it must be cleaning out all the crud from the tank ...+ what would you recommend for heating the filter ...baby's bottle heater ...or heat exchanger .... + should i take off the fan as Dieselmans done to add heat to the filter ....and sunflower oil veg oil is there a differance ..... can both be used ...i am with veg oil at the moment 50/50 mix .....with a blob of miller diesel power + sport (no less)

Both SilverSaloon (Derek) and I have had a number of problems with 100% vegetable oil in our W124 M606 E300 Diesels and I would be cautious about recommending it until we have sorted those problems.

We have both had serious fuel leaks from the pipes in the engine compartment. Derek has solved his by fitting new pipes and Viton O ring seals. I have purchased the pipes and seals but I haven't fitted them yet, so I am having to cope with a car that marks its territory!

The other problem we have both had is severe fuel starvation. I usually keep the tank topped up so didn't notice it until I did a 400 mile trip (800 mile return). When the fuel gauge showed about 3/8 full, the engine just died. I topped it up and it worked fine.

This happened again when I let the fuel level drop below 1/2 and I was in the third lane of the M40. Not good.

I have purchased a new fuel filter and a tank strainer and will be fitting them as soon as I get the chance. Derek is away on a caravanning holiday with his E300 Diesel and is keeping the tank well topped up. No doubt he will report his experiences when he returns from holiday next week.

In the meantime, I would not recommend anyone tries 100% veg oil.

 

[philiggy]

Both SilverSaloon (Derek) and I have had a number of problems with 100% vegetable oil in our W124 M606 E300 Diesels and I would be cautious about recommending it until we have sorted those problems.

We have both had serious fuel leaks from the pipes in the engine compartment. Derek has solved his by fitting new pipes and Viton O ring seals. I have purchased the pipes and seals but I haven't fitted them yet, so I am having to cope with a car that marks its territory!

The other problem we have both had is severe fuel starvation. I usually keep the tank topped up so didn't notice it until I did a 400 mile trip (800 mile return). When the fuel gauge showed about 3/8 full, the engine just died. I topped it up and it worked fine.

This happened again when I let the fuel level drop below 1/2 and I was in the third lane of the M40. Not good.

I have purchased a new fuel filter and a tank strainer and will be fitting them as soon as I get the chance. Derek is away on a caravanning holiday with his E300 Diesel and is keeping the tank well topped up. No doubt he will report his experiences when he returns from holiday next week.

In the meantime, I would not recommend anyone tries 100% veg oil.

I agree, I've run 3 E300s and an E250 unmodified on veggy oil, I've tried 100% without success, I've found 75% summer 50% winter as your starting point, but each car differs
Change the plastic diesel pipes, also change the filter and pre filter after a couple of tank fulls

Phil

 

[TonyVianoAmbiente]

I agree, I've run 3 E300s and an E250 unmodified on veggy oil, I've tried 100% without success, I've found 75% summer 50% winter max, but each car differs

That's about right. I'm running 50% now but my problems really multiplied when I went above 90%.

Change the plastic diesel pipes, also change the filter and pre filter after a couple of tank fulls

I would agree on changing the pipes but fitting Viton O ring seals is also a good idea. They are cheap enough. The pre-filter can be washed and re-used, but it's very cheap to replace. The most important thing is to replace the pre-filter's O ring when re-fitting.

My caution about recommending veg oil is mainly because of the fuel starvation issue. But there is also the issue of price.

Even the cheapest sources of veg oil are now charging upwards of 85p per litre as new stocks come through. If you're mixing it 50/50 with DERV at 119p as I do, the overall cost saving of the mixture is only 17p per litre on the cost of a litre DERV.

That's a very small saving when you consider the cost of new fuel pipes, O ring seals, fuel filter and pre-filter plus the sheer hassle of filling the tank with a mixture of DERV and veg oil. Unless the price differential increases, I expect to be going back to 100% DERV as soon as I have exhausted my current stocks of veg oil.

 

[230K]

I am considering going 100% veg oil in my e300 td the fuel filter has just been changed when would it need changing again as it must be cleaning out all the crud from the tank ...+ what would you recommend for heating the filter ...baby's bottle heater ...or heat exchanger .... + should i take off the fan as Dieselmans done to add heat to the filter ....and sunflower oil veg oil is there a differance ..... can both be used ...i am with veg oil at the moment 50/50 mix .....with a blob of miller diesel power + sport (no less)

Mark

My advice is play about with the % dont go direct to 100% from 50%. Just week by week increase the % until you start noticing and problems developing. Soon you will find the optimum % that your car can deal with.

This if i remember correctly is similar to the advice i gave to others previously.

Good luck

230K

 

[c240yaz]

Fuel injection pumps do not like veg oil. Lubrication qualities do not match Diesel. Be aware. expensive retro fit.

No matter how much you dilute.

A few months ago, I attended a course with Detroit diesel which proved this. Avoid.

 

[Dieselman]

What brand and type of pumps are being used Yaz.?

I bet they are Standyne.

 

[DieselDick]

From the fairly extensive reseach I did - Lucas and CAV pumps are likely to fail , but Bosch are bulletproof.

I agree with the previous comments about the price of oil - it is so expensive now it is not worth the hasstle of buying it and putting it in. When it was 56p / litre it was worth it, but it's now over £1 / litre. Much easier just to roll into Shell and fill up - the savings just aren't there anymore.

 

[DieselDick]

kerosene is the common name for heating oil 28sec, gasoil is red diesel 35sec, different stuff, run any diesel engine on Kerosene and it'll pack up due to lack of lubrication, not a good way to save money

Phil

What about adding 10% cheap engine oil or veg oil to the kerosene ? You can buy ASDA Smartprice engine oil for about £5 for 4.5 litres - wouldn't put it in the engine but it will have the effect of increasing the viscosity & libricity of the kerosene so that it gives upper cylinder & pump lubrication as well as diesel does ?

Unfortunately I'm on gas so I don't have any heating oil (kerosene), but I work with a guy who runs a diesel RangeRover on the above mix (90% kerosene , 10% cheap engine oil) and has got away with it with no engine problems for the last 3 years !

The kerosene also looks & smells exactly the same as diesel (unlike gas oil or agricultural diesel, which has red dye). He has never had his tank dipped, but he reckons when they do dip tanks they are looking for red diesel and check it simply by sight (they put a small clear plastic pipe into your tank and suck up a small amouny and check it is clear, not pink).

 

[DieselDick]

The other problem we have both had is severe fuel starvation. I usually keep the tank topped up so didn't notice it until I did a 400 mile trip (800 mile return). When the fuel gauge showed about 3/8 full, the engine just died. I topped it up and it worked fine.

This happened again when I let the fuel level drop below 1/2 and I was in the third lane of the M40. Not good.

Are you sure the oil & diesel were mixed fully ?
I can think of no other reason to have problems part-way down the tank.
Best to put the diesel in first followed by the oil, and no more than 3/4 full to allow mixing space.. Alternatively mix them in drums and then add.
They do not mix easily, but once mixed they will not separate again.

 

[c240yaz]

What brand and type of pumps are being used Yaz.?

I bet they are Standyne.

Dieselman,
Stanadyne corporation pumps are the normal set up on the DDC V16. They have a partnership. I have never known one to fail. Even if I was allowed too, veg oil would go nowhere near it. But then, company operated trucks, so cost of diesel is not an issue.

If I had a spare vehicle of my own, I would love to experiment with veg oil, but unfortunately, I don't have.

 

[Dieselman]

Even if I was allowed too, veg oil would go nowhere near it.

Nor would I, Standyne are Lucas copies or at least very similar in make up and will not tollerate the higher viscosity oil.
Bosch rotary or even better in line PE pumps are the best.

 

[c240yaz]

Nor would I, Standyne are Lucas copies or at least very similar in make up and will not tollerate the higher viscosity oil.
Bosch rotary or even better in line PE pumps are the best.

Dieselman, I have to admit, I agree with you on that one. Note the pumps are franked Stanadyne, not Standyne.

I reckon they are more robust than Bosche, or other.

 

[TonyVianoAmbiente]

Are you sure the oil & diesel were mixed fully ?
I can think of no other reason to have problems part-way down the tank.
Best to put the diesel in first followed by the oil, and no more than 3/4 full to allow mixing space.

That is exactly what I do when mixing. I'm on 50/50 DERV and veg oil and down to just over 1/4 tank without problems.

However the problems came when I was running near 100% veg oil, so mixing didn't come into it.

 

[SilverSaloon]

hi. i am back from holiday

we did approx 1400 miles in total - on 100% veg

the car remains the same as before:

- starts the same (a few tries when cold due to air being sucked in)
- more difficult to start when the car is parked on a hill with the front of the car higher than the rear - i believe the air getting sucked in gravity plays its part and drains it all back to the fuel tank quicker so its very hard to start - so i need to ensure i always park the right way round!!
- i didnt let the car run less than 1/4 of a tank so still dont know regarding the fuel starvation issue.

basically i have seen no difference (now the weather isnt cold) starting and running on 100% than i did on 50% or even 0% veg. Since starting using veg i have had these issues. the % mix doesnt seem to change it for me. so personally i would recommend it. it is still about 40p a litre cheaper if you buy from macro/costco etc than derv.

i still need to sort the fuel leak issues out but i am confident that once i've done this with new viton o-rings the car should be fine.

its just finding the time - at the moment i am just living with the cold-start issues.

 

[philiggy]

- starts the same (a few tries when cold due to air being sucked in)
- more difficult to start when the car is parked on a hill with the front of the car higher than the rear - i believe the air getting sucked in gravity plays its part and drains it all back to the fuel tank quicker so its very hard to start - so i need to ensure i always park the right way round!!
- i didnt let the car run less than 1/4 of a tank so still dont know regarding the fuel starvation issue.

i remember this issue with omegas on veggy oil from years ago, I'll try and find out what it was

My 30p per litre guy has stopped selling his waste oil now so i'm in for a big hike in fuel costs

Phil

 

[philiggy]

What about adding 10% cheap engine oil or veg oil to the kerosene ? You can buy ASDA Smartprice engine oil for about £5 for 4.5 litres - wouldn't put it in the engine but it will have the effect of increasing the viscosity & libricity of the kerosene so that it gives upper cylinder & pump lubrication as well as diesel does ?

Unfortunately I'm on gas so I don't have any heating oil (kerosene), but I work with a guy who runs a diesel RangeRover on the above mix (90% kerosene , 10% cheap engine oil) and has got away with it with no engine problems for the last 3 years !

The kerosene also looks & smells exactly the same as diesel (unlike gas oil or agricultural diesel, which has red dye). He has never had his tank dipped, but he reckons when they do dip tanks they are looking for red diesel and check it simply by sight (they put a small clear plastic pipe into your tank and suck up a small amouny and check it is clear, not pink).

I dont know how it would run but you are probably right about adding a lubricant, thats how 2 strokes work but with less lube than 10:1, normaly 25:1 or 50:1

Phil

 

[dean36014]

I've been running my W124 E250 on 100% cooking oil. Over the winter i had no problems starting, but it was sluggish for the first mile or so. I've had the usual fuel leaks now all sorted, and i blocked a new fuel filter in a 1000 miles. I've also had the mysterious running out of fuel problem when its below 1/4 of a tank, I'm wondering if its to do with how much thicker cooking oil is over diesel. I think when the tank is low on fuel, it doesn't like flowing down the small bore fuel lines. the solution, don't run under quarter of a tank, and i keep a gallon can of diesel and a couple of spare filters in the boot just incase.
Only problem is i can't get cheap new oil anymore.

 

[Dieselman]

The running out of fuel at 1/4 tank may be the strainer and plenum in the tank being blocked.
The hole to let fuel into the plenum is tiny so when the fuel gets below the vent it runs out.
Ideally you need to cut off the strainer and fit and external mesh filter and larger bore fuel line and fuel heater.

Is everyone checking their engine oil regularly for caramalising?

 

[SilverSaloon]

Is everyone checking their engine oil regularly for caramalising?

yes very aware of this.... i check the oil on the dipstick regually and plan on replacing the oil over the next few weeks when i find some spare time to do it. Oil seems fine however at the moment from what i can tell.

another thing to thow some mystery to my starting issue since using veg -

I have put some plumbers tape (PTFE) in addition to the viton seals on the clear plastic fuel pipes and car now appears to start A LOT better.

i have no idea how long the PTFE tape will last though.

i am currently getting the oil for about 83p a litre now since bookers increased the price of the EuroShopper 79p stuff still a lot cheaper than at the pumps though.