Very poor practice by dealership - possibly my last Mercedes

[FiveAlive]

I know I'm late to the party on this thread but, as soon as I read the OP state that the EML was on when they picked up their car and they stuck a sticker over it rather than go straight back in, I had a pretty good idea that how the thread was going to pan out.

I just don't understand the thought processes of some people and find it hard to add constructive input when I can't get past "Why on Earth did you think that was the right thing to do?".... just like the recent "I didn't bother to get my car serviced, the engine blew up and now the dealer expects me to pay for a new one myself" thread.

 

[MrA209]

From the extended warranty brochure (online):

"Making a claim in the UK

Contact your chosen authorised Mercedes-Benz Retailer and tell them that your insured vehicle is protected by the Mercedes-Benz Extended Warranty. The Mercedes-Benz Retailer will contact us about the claim on your behalf. You are responsible to authorise the retailer to dismantle the insured vehicle or carry out any other work needed to diagnose any faults with the insured vehicle.

We will only pay for diagnostic costs that are directly associated with a valid claim for a faulty part under this insurance."

(Italics mine)

I'm sure we all enjoy the odd bit of dealer-bashing now and again, but seems this time the comments about the warranty & diagnostics fee are not wholly justified.

Had a quick chat with my lad - who spent 2 years behind the desk before recently returning to the workshop - the warranty company wouldn't likely front up the cost for the diagnostics but would pay for them if they identified a fault covered by the insurance.

 

[bolidemichael]

I had it with BMW Mondial insurance. The dealer was always obliged to advise that a diagnostic charge may be applied if the issue wasn't covered by warranty, but it's usually in their interest that it is covered as they can lay on the bill nice a thick and it utilises all of the workshop hours. They want people to keep returning and claiming, so once a rapport is established they'll guide you accordingly.

 

[Dryce]

I'm sure we all enjoy the odd bit of dealer-bashing now and again, but seems this time the comments about the warranty & diagnostics fee are not wholly justified.

Well the warranty seems quite a step down from the top notch one that used to come with an AU car - it now seems a pretty run of the mill aftermarket used warranty.

Diagnostic charges for warranty work seem to have come in with the change in warranty provision - and as reported seem unreasonably high.

But if you're OK with that .... then who's to say they haven't taken the measurement of their customers and figured that .... well if enough customers will buy into an inferior AU offering with extra charges then it's entirely logical to diminish the brand to meet their expectations?

 

[BTB 500]

The last time I used a Tier 1 Approved Used warranty was about 8 years ago, and it was made completely clear then that if the fault (an intermittent error on the driver's door mirror indicator) wasn't covered by the warranty I would have to pay for the diagnostic checks. I can see the sense in this from the dealership POV - they need to know that *someone* will pay them for the work they do. In the event there was no issue and the whole door mirror assembly was replaced without any quibbling, even though the car wasn't reporting an error at the time.

 

[MrA209]

The last time I used a Tier 1 Approved Used warranty was about 8 years ago, and it was made completely clear then that if the fault (an intermittent error on the driver's door mirror indicator) wasn't covered by the warranty I would have to pay for the diagnostic checks. I can see the sense in this from the dealership POV - they need to know that *someone* will pay them for the work they do. In the event there was no issue and the whole door mirror assembly was replaced without any quibbling, even though the car wasn't reporting an error at the time.

Spot on - as the doc says the person has to authorise the work, i.e. assume responsibility for the cost if it's discovered any fault is not covered by the warranty.

 

[whitenemesis]

Was that a BMW dealership?

 

[DrNick]

Spot on - as the doc says the person has to authorise the work, i.e. assume responsibility for the cost if it's discovered any fault is not covered by the warranty.

Trouble is, you have coughed up for what you think is piece of mind, but as soon as there is an issue the squirming starts, and the true horror of what you thought was a comprehensive warranty turns out to be full of holes. This is not customer service - this is just an insurance business and I'd expect better from ANY manufacturer putting their name to it. A customer wants piece of mind that ANY issues will be covered as long as some basic servicing has been carried out. A list of wear and tear items can be excluded as is reasonable, but it should be an easy to understand list of sensible exclusions with anything else being INCLUDED, not subject to negotiation afterwards. So any issue involving an EML coming on should be automatically included because that is outside any foreseeable event. No quibble.

My view anyway. Otherwise you might as well just buy an insurance warranty and buyer beware!

 

[Bobby Dazzler]

Trouble is, you have coughed up for what you think is piece of mind, but as soon as there is an issue the squirming starts, and the true horror of what you thought was a comprehensive warranty turns out to be full of holes. This is not customer service - this is just an insurance business and I'd expect better from ANY manufacturer putting their name to it. A customer wants piece of mind that ANY issues will be covered as long as some basic servicing has been carried out. A list of wear and tear items can be excluded as is reasonable, but it should be an easy to understand list of sensible exclusions with anything else being INCLUDED, not subject to negotiation afterwards. So any issue involving an EML coming on should be automatically included because that is outside any foreseeable event. No quibble.

My view anyway. Otherwise you might as well just buy an insurance warranty and buyer beware!

I’ve never known negotiation on warranty claims. It’s in the warranty provider’s interest to make sure that inclusions and/or exclusions are crystal clear, and it is. They even say this stuff in plain English now too.

When buying a warranty some people make too many unrealistic assumptions as they don’t or won’t read what the cover is. There’s only so much that the insurance company can do if the customer won’t read it.

 

[tonysmb]

^^^^, this.

It's a sweeping generalisation but, in my experience, few customers actually read many of the contracts that they sign, too often taking as gospel what the sales person tells them. I've even had one (young/new) salesman question why I wanted to read something -'nobody else has asked to read it'.

 

[Dryce]

^^^^, this.

It's a sweeping generalisation but, in my experience, few customers actually read many of the contracts that they sign, too often taking as gospel what the sales person tells them. I've even had one (young/new) salesman question why I wanted to read something -'nobody else has asked to read it'.

We have bought 5 AU cars from three different marques in the last 16 years.

My observation is that there is precious little hard documentation provided to customers when they purchase an AU car.

Terms and Conditions have been implied but largely absent. Customers tend to get nice brochure type summaries and some sort of reference to Ts & Cs that don't seem to be easily found.

At the time of sale dealers would rather focus on finance, GAP, paint and upholstery protection, alloy wheel insurance - and paperwork focus is typically finance based because of regulations and compliance.

 

[ALFAitalia]

I had it with BMW Mondial insurance. The dealer was always obliged to advise that a diagnostic charge may be applied if the issue wasn't covered by warranty, but it's usually in their interest that it is covered as they can lay on the bill nice a thick and it utilises all of the workshop hours. They want people to keep returning and claiming, so once a rapport is established they'll guide you accordingly.

Well unless things have changed a lot since I was in the main dealer trade a few years that's not true.....the labour rate that the warranty companies (or even the manufacturers) pay is far less than retail labour rate. They would far rather be selling those ours to retail customers than discounting them for warranty repairs. And you cant max the hours either....Mercedes will have book hours.....and regardless of how long it takes in the real world....that's all they will pay....you can stretch them out with retail punters if you can be convincing (seized bolts etc etc) but normally warranty companies wont play ball.....they are in it for profit after all.....so want to pay the absolute minimum on any claim. Often the book hours are difficult, or even impossible to do the actual job in.

 

[bolidemichael]

Well unless things have changed a lot since I was in the main dealer trade a few years that's not true.....the labour rate that the warranty companies (or even the manufacturers) pay is far less than retail labour rate. They would far rather be selling those ours to retail customers than discounting them for warranty repairs. And you cant max the hours either....Mercedes will have book hours.....and regardless of how long it takes in the real world....that's all they will pay....you can stretch them out with retail punters if you can be convincing (seized bolts etc etc) but normally warranty companies wont play ball.....they are in it for profit after all.....so want to pay the absolute minimum on any claim. Often the book hours are difficult, or even impossible to do the actual job in.

Not true? Or not aligned with your own experience?

The two statements are rather different, after all.

Also, it seems as though you are referring specifically to Mercedes, where I am referring specifically to BMW.

 

[ALFAitalia]

Aligned with my experience working in a VW AUDI dealer for 17 years...warranty work was an essential evil! As I said it was a few years back and maybe it works better for the dealers now.....but I cant imagine that these companies pay anything like retail labour rate or anything over book hours.

 

[DrNick]

I’ve never known negotiation on warranty claims. It’s in the warranty provider’s interest to make sure that inclusions and/or exclusions are crystal clear, and it is. They even say this stuff in plain English now too.

When buying a warranty some people make too many unrealistic assumptions as they don’t or won’t read what the cover is. There’s only so much that the insurance company can do if the customer won’t read it.

But the average person buying a car has no idea would could go wrong and if anything excluded is important! You can read it in as much detail as you want but if you know nothing about cars you won't be any the wiser. You want to buy piece of mind, so you WILL rely on the honesty of salespeople. It depends if you want to sell insurance or provide a service. If MB warrantied their own cars, maybe a service would be provided. Give it to an insurance business and suddenly there's a third party whose only interest is in profit. MB are doing their best to hide this third party. It wouldn't be so bad if the cars never went wrong.

 

[Bobby Dazzler]

Give it to an insurance business and suddenly there's a third party whose only interest is in profit. MB are doing their best to hide this third party. It wouldn't be so bad if the cars never went wrong.

How are they hiding it?

 

[Bobby Dazzler]

But the average person buying a car has no idea would could go wrong and if anything excluded is important! You can read it in as much detail as you want but if you know nothing about cars you won't be any the wiser.

If a driver/owner cannot understand the majority of terms mentioned in the exclusions in this link then that cannot be considered either Mercedes or the insurance company’s fault. They can’t meaningfully make it any simpler, without removing the exclusion.

Extended Warranty Cover | Mercedes-Benz Extended Warranty

Mercedes-Benz Extended Warranty protects and covers the majority of mechanical and electrical components in your vehicle from unexpected faults, using Mercedes-Benz genuine parts and dealerships to rectify and repair your car.

www.mercedes-benzwarranty.co.uk

• Air cleaners
• Any seal, gasket or sealant
• Auxiliary belts
• Batteries - non HV and auxiliary batteries
• Bonnet, boot and fuel flap release cables
• Brake friction material and discs/drums
• Brake pipes and brake hoses
• Clutch assemblies/clutch fork/release bearings/pressure plate/carrier plate
• Clutch master cylinder/clutch slave cylinder
• Core plugs
• Distributor caps
• Drive shaft and steering rack gaiters
• Electrical connection blocks, terminals and fuses
• Exhaust system, muffler, heat shields and exhaust pipes
• Fuel filters
• Gearbox, axle and drive line mountings
• Handbrake/parking brake cablesHinges (all)Hoses/pipes (non-metal), hose clips and connectors (excluding coolant hoses)
• HT leads
• Light bulbs and LED bulbs (except Xenon Bulbs)
• Navigation CDs, DVDs and SD cards
• Oil filters and gaskets
• PAS high pressure hose/pipes
• Pollen/odour filters
• Reprogramming or software updatesShock absorbers and suspension struts
• Spark plugs
• Sunroof cables, convertible cables, convertible roof material and straps
• Tyres
• Wheels
• Wiper blades
• Wiring and wiring looms.

 

[Bobby Dazzler]

A customer wants piece of mind that ANY issues will be covered as long as some basic servicing has been carried out.

The market for cover so comprehensive that any issues would be covered would be very limited, the majority of people would not be prepared to pay the resulting premium.

I have no data to confirm it, however I suspect that most drivers/owners don’t buy extended warranties because they think that limited warranties are already too expensive.

 

[zipdip]

Well my son bought a second hand van,it had the RAC warranty on it and two weeks after he got the van it went into limp mode,he got it home and the RAC turned up and used their diagnostics and said that the P3 pump was not working and as the van had tried to regenerate it caused the limp mode and the EML, the guy transfered his findings to my sons phone,then you get the game of find a garage that is a RAC one,ok we found one and had to pay £60 for the garage to do it's own diagnostics even though we had the RAC diagnostics on the phone,the result was the same and 5 days later the van was fixed cost £400,but you do not get that diagnostic fee back,just to mention the van had the plastic tank holding the P3 fluid which has a built in pump,these were used on the pre adblue vans and the van is not exampt from London congestion charges.

 

[Dryce]

If a driver/owner cannot understand the majority of terms mentioned in the exclusions in this link then that cannot be considered either Mercedes or the insurance company’s fault. They can’t meaningfully make it any simpler, without removing the exclusion.

Extended Warranty Cover | Mercedes-Benz Extended Warranty

Mercedes-Benz Extended Warranty protects and covers the majority of mechanical and electrical components in your vehicle from unexpected faults, using Mercedes-Benz genuine parts and dealerships to rectify and repair your car.

www.mercedes-benzwarranty.co.uk

How many will ever see the exclusion list?

Here's what MB headlines on AU:

One-year unlimited mileage warranty​

Receive complete peace of mind for a year with a free first year warranty with unlimited mileage. In the unlikely event that your Approved Used Mercedes-Benz needs to be repaired within this time, we’ll give you up to £100 per day (inc. VAT) towards a replacement car.

Now depending where you see it there might be a '*' with a footnote hat refers to Ts & Cs ..... I've yet to find the Ts & Cs after some simple searches.


Here's what they say about extended warranty:

What is an Extended Warranty?​

A Mercedes-Benz Extended Warranty will help to provide you with cover against unexpected mechanical or electrical failure. As a result, the policy is also sometimes known as mechanical breakdown insurance (MBI).
‍
Our policy covers Mercedes-Benz cars with an expired manufacturer warranty or Approved Used warranty. Please note, we can only provide cover for cars that have completed under 120,000 miles at the start of the policy, and are under 10 years of age at the end of the policy.
‍
If you take out a Mercedes-Benz Extended Warranty, you’ll be protected against the cost of parts, labour and VAT in the event of a mechanical or electrical failure. All work is completed by your preferred Mercedes-Benz Retailer and carried out using genuine Mercedes-Benz

And that's from an FAQ where you might expect to find more details - or obvious links to detailed Ts & Cs.

But I didn't spot any link.