Vibration in steering/Brake pedal

[GeorgeA]

Update

Took car back to MB dealer today and complained that the action of balancing and swopping wheels that they undertook on my last visit was of no use. Fired all the ideas and comments received from you guys at them. Disks, wheel bearings, bushes etc.

After short wait workshop foreman asked to drive the car - I insisted on going also - so off we went. The brake vibration thru the pedal he blames on the rear disks and claims this is common complaint, particularly if you are in the habit of braking moderately, as I am. Quoted £295 to change the rear disks and pads. They do look in poor state; mind you he drove the car harder than me and they are at least a little bit shiny now, though still scored and pitted.

The vibration thru the steering is a separate issue. The car was taken into the workshop for a closer look.

Upon returning he advised that he thought the problem was associated with the tyres and has swopped the front right to the rear off side. I drove the car and would concede that the vibration is less noticable but still apparent. Had all the tyres on the machine and the best ones are now on the front however claims both tyres on rear suffer from "minor runout" that may in time disappear. Suggested that this is something I should live with even the rear disks could last for sometime yet.

Now I am not completely convinced that this is correct and still intend visiting the independant garage for another opinion. For me I want the car to run smoothly with no vibrations whatsoever the way it has for the past two years.

What do you make of this?

 

[miro]

What do you make of this?

Small vibration, large vibration ... what difference does it make if the problem isnt fixed.

 

[television]

On cars that are driven lightly the rear brake rotors can become very pitted and out of true. this is due to the 28% only at the rear.
I parked my V70 at Stansted during one Winter after driving through Ice and salt. When I returned one rear disk had split through the center effectively making 2 disc

When living in Sweden you have to do a weekly hard stop to keep them clear in winter.

If the shaking is still there but less now that the wheels have been changed over indicates that there is a balance problem too.

I have also heard it said that if after a hard stop, if you keep the foot brake down, this can leave an imprint in the disc, also that part of the disc would be cooled quicker through the capillary thermal runaway.
It is an involved subject

 

[GeorgeA]

Indy has condemned the rear disks so booked in for replacement. Will check for disk run out on front disks and check the torque arm bushes also. Work cannot be completed till end of next week so I will just have to be patient till then.

Indy claims he replaces a lot of rear disks on newer MB cars. I guess all the comments I read about "they don't make them like they used to" are so very true

 

[television]

Indy has condemned the rear disks so booked in for replacement. Will check for disk run out on front disks and check the torque arm bushes also. Work cannot be completed till end of next week so I will just have to be patient till then.

Indy claims he replaces a lot of rear disks on newer MB cars. I guess all the comments I read about "they don't make them like they used to" are so very true

We have had a lot of rain this year that can give rust problems on cars that are braked lightly, try driving with boots on

 

[GeorgeA]

Once the new disks are fitted will endeavour to put a bit more effort into giving the brakes a workout as suggested, but still feel all the energy goes thru the front disks

Don't want you to think I am a Sunday driver I feel I can make haste in any journey with no requirement to brake excessively hard - I think its called anticipating the road ahead

 

[BlackC55]

Indy has condemned the rear disks so booked in for replacement. Will check for disk run out on front disks and check the torque arm bushes also. Work cannot be completed till end of next week so I will just have to be patient till then.

Indy claims he replaces a lot of rear disks on newer MB cars. I guess all the comments I read about "they don't make them like they used to" are so very true

Is he using genuine discs?

Rear disc corrosion is very common. I have replaced more on 124's for this reason than any other model MB.

It is not the quality that is the problem its wet weather, very light braking and not using the car for long periods.

The diagnosis seems accurate from the dealer. What make tyres do you have and how much wear? The cheaper end of the tyre makes seem to suffer with vibration.

Do you have AMG wheels with a low profile?

 

[television]

Once the new disks are fitted will endeavour to put a bit more effort into giving the brakes a workout as suggested, but still feel all the energy goes thru the front disks

Don't want you to think I am a Sunday driver I feel I can make haste in any journey with no requirement to brake excessively hard - I think its called anticipating the road ahead

You are the same as me anticipating the road ahead, it is by far the best way to drive.

Just once a month do one hard stop as braking a little harder will not help much.. this is due to the 72% front and 28% rear braking presures

 

[GeorgeA]

BlackC55,

I shall insist on genuine disks.

Tyres are Goodyear Eagle NCT 5 205/55/16 91V as recommended by MB with standard MB alloys.

All tyres have been replaced, two due to punctures and two due to normal wear. Plenty of tread in all of them as only 7000 miles covered since oldest one replaced. Tyres were certainly reasonably priced but I don't think Goodyear are classed as cheap and cheerful - do you?.

Numerous wheel swops/balancing have been carried out, at least 4 wheel balances so far. Everyone who drives the car immediately suggests wheel balance, I just wish it was.

As for the car well it is used every weekday but may sit in the garage at the weekend as my wifes car is the shopping basket. I only do about 8000 a year the car currently has 27k on the clock.

Interestingly when the tyres are removed and balanced the situation is improved for about the first 50 miles - not completely eradicated but better. But give it time and the vibration is back and apparent from 40mph

Any further thoughts/ideas appreciated

 

[BlackC55]

To completely rule out the wheel and tyre problem swap your set with another. (maybe someone on here will be willing to do it for a test)

Then you will see if it is a wheel and tyre problem.

 

[GeorgeA]

Had all the tyres on the machine and the best ones are now on the front however claims both tyres on rear suffer from "minor runout" that may in time disappear.

Can anyone make sense of "minor runout" and will this disappear in time?

 

[television]

Its simple, if the car shake or vibrates when driving at over 30-40 mph then it is a balance problem.

If it only does it when braking, then it is a disc.

Many people have had their wheels balanced again and again, only by using some one else has the problem been solved, as it would appear the many firms have faulty equipment or do not know what they are doing

 

[GeorgeA]

Its simple, if the car shake or vibrates when driving at over 30-40 mph then it is a balance problem.

If it only does it when braking, then it is a disc.

Many people have had their wheels balanced again and again, only by using some one else has the problem been solved, as it would appear the many firms have faulty equipment or do not know what they are doing

The vibration under braking will be resolved by replacing the rear disks. (Lets hope so anyway)

Vibration thru the steering wheel could still be a balancing problem I concede, however balancing has been carried out now a the MB main dealer twice and two other local tyre depots.

I have asked the indy garage to check out the front disks and suspension and I will also ask that all wheels are balanced once again.

Maybe its me thats unbalanced!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

[BlackC55]

Do as I suggested and then you will see if the tyres/wheels are the problem.

 

[GeorgeA]

Do as I suggested and then you will see if the tyres/wheels are the problem.

I feel I have exhausted the wheel/tyre combination to rid me of this problem. The alloys were replaced in June under warranty with no improvement in the vibration. The specific tyre that replaced a puncture was taken off the car, as this all started after this puncture, with no improvement either. Wheel swops and balancing tried also.

I think the issue is further confused by having to address two issues, the worn rear disks and the steering wheel vibration.

So, after the disks are replaced, if things are the same, I shall ask the indy to temporarily fit another set of wheels. If need be I will replace the rear tyres as they have been marked as suspect by the dealer.

Thanks for your input

 

[BlackC55]

The thrust arm bushes need to be checked too

 

[GeorgeA]

The thrust arm bushes need to be checked too

Yes this has been mentioned and will be checked by the indy garage when the rear disks are replaced.

I hope the MB dealer looked at them and if so a problem would have been readily apparent. Car has been in MB dealer twice so they should have been checked don't you think?

Now this is not my area of expertise but just how could the thrust arm bushes be in need of replacement? (3 year old car 27k on clock)

How many of them are there?. I have been quoted £300 to replace. Is this about right?

 

[miro]

How many of them are there?. I have been quoted £300 to replace. Is this about right?

There are 4 bushes. One at each end of the arm and two arms on the car.

The TRICK is to buy the WHOLE ARM with the bushes installed at factory. The 2 hour job then takes 20 minutes and the price of the whole arm is barely more than the bushes themselves.

300 quid seems a bit steep.

 

[BlackC55]

There are 4 bushes. One at each end of the arm and two arms on the car.

The TRICK is to buy the WHOLE ARM with the bushes installed at factory. The 2 hour job then takes 20 minutes and the price of the whole arm is barely more than the bushes themselves.

300 quid seems a bit steep.

There is one bush on the thrust arm not two.

You are thinking of the 210 design.

The whole arm is much more expensive than pressing out the old bush and replacing it with new.

Only buy genuine thrust arm bushes as the non gen type are terrible.

 

[miro]

The whole arm is much more expensive than pressing out the old bush and replacing it with new.

Depends on who is fitting the part. I have seen some silly prices for pressing the bush out and in.

Bolts kit = 10 Euro
Bushing = 20 Euro (2)

Wheel Bearing kit with grease = 20 euro (2)

Complete thrust arm = 140 Euro

I must have thought the front was the same price as the rear ones. Clearly the rear ones are much cheaper and obviously the front ones cost a fair bit. I replaced all of my rear ones.