W126 / M119 engine transplant

[dejawu]

only got this picture on this pc im afraid

Hey supercharger where the heck did you get that supercharger ? how much do it cost ? i need one too

 

[grober]

A useful gain in drive-ability thro-out the rev range would be to fit proper tubular gas flowed exhaust manifolds assuming they will fit. Mercedes own approach to "tune" that engine was to "stroke it" with a different crank 94.8mm V 85mm stroke with the same bore of 96.5 mm to produce the 560 motor developing 300 bhp. It would have probably had a larger throated/recalibrated KE injection system also-- not sure If you can lay your hands on a 560 motor that would be the simplest upgade IMHO

 

[stevesey]

A useful gain in drive-ability thro-out the rev range would be to fit proper tubular gas flowed exhaust manifolds assuming they will fit.

There a (distant) echo around here (post #19).

 

[grober]

There a (distant) echo around here (post #19).

Yup just realised I had posted this before!

 

[219]

If it was me , I'd stick to the M117 and just drop in a 560 engine which is more or less a straight swap . Your standard 500SE M117 will have somewhere between 220-260 bhp , depending on model (most of them towards the bottom end of that range) ; the 560 comes out with 300 bhp , which is not far off the 320-330 bhp of the M119 . As already said the 32V M119 is much heavier than the 16V M117 and will involve a fair amount of work to fit . You could probably still tune a 560 M117 for more power if you wanted to , but it would keep the car much closer to standard .

 

[expand]

Hi Mercv8! Did your project worked out?

 

[npk]

M119 into W126 560SEL

Which engine bracket should be used? SL or W140? I believe the W140 is using hydraulic mountings while SL is using traditional rubber only mounting with vibration absorbers.

For a W126, which M119 donor is easier and less modification(including exhaust manifold)? SL or W140(not considering the engine management, ie ECU and engine harness...going for aftermarket Haltech ECU)

Thanks in advance

 

[KRH500sec]

Hi Guys, i have been a member for a while but not posted as i live in Perth, Western Australia but i am heavily into W126 SEC coupes of which i own two.
1987 Euro spec white SEC with a High comp 500 engine
1988 euro spec black SEC with a high comp 560 engine/350trans/265 from factory

The white coupe i drive on weekends for indulgence
The black coupe i have stripped down as a serious rebuild project to a replica WB

I also have a stripped down front chop SEC section (i chopped it below the front seats) to use as a dummy test bed frame for engine/trans conversions measuring etc)

Over the years i have accumulated many rare parts to use of my future SEC projects.
Engine wise I have a spare Euro spec 420 /500/560/ M119.960 500 / W140 M119.980 500
plus its matching 722.6trans & engine harness
Trans - spare rebuilt 311 and 350 trans
Spare Diffs - LSD 2.47 / LSD 3.07 (my white coupe has a 2.24 & black has a 2.65)

The spare high comp 560 engine has been rebuilt with ported heads and custom EFI set-up fitted controlled by a Dyno tuned Haltec 2000 ECU ( i purchased the engine complete like this as it was prepped by a guy i know in Sydney who track races Mercs and it was custom tuned using a rising rate reg & bosch pumps.

My dilemma is i know i can drop in the 560EFI engine into the black 560 coupe and be happy.

However !!
i am curious to go a step further and drop in the M119.980/722.620 5 speed trans.
I have a spare Haltec 2000 and wiring loom that i could have custom tuned to run the engine (except i am stumped with the factory FBW throttle body set-up as the Haltec can't run it) and i can source a stand alone custom TCU to run the electronic box and allow custom fine tuning of the trans via laptop to suite my driving style)

I am not sure if i can convert this M119 throttle body back to just cable operation?
and i am not concerned about functions - ASR or cruise control as not required.
Or a go ahead and purchase the newly released Haltec Elite ECU which does have FBW function but it release price is AUS$2,800

I can pull the sump and any parts i need off the early M119.960 engine to swap into the later 1997 engine to clear the engine cross-member

I also have sourced an W210 E-class rear mount steering rack to do a R&P steering conversion to allow more room for header pipe work/clearance etc

I would like some input into the what other mods are needed to drop the M119.980 engine/722.6 trans into the W126 SEC
I have both sets of M117 and M119 engine mounts (legs and rubbers) but assume i will need to bolt up the M117 mount legs and rubber mounts/brackets?

I know about clearance work required to the false fire wall and will soon work out any inner sidewall clearance work that may be required to fit the M119 engine/taller heads in
I assume the 722.6 trans may required clearance work to the trans tunnel as well?
Please chime in if someone has good input into this procedure

As to what trans mount mods will be adapted/used ?

Tailshaft -
i have both a 4 arm and 3 arm trans mount for the flex plate
I have spare M117 drive shafts and have sourced one out of a SL600 ( 4 point flex mount arms) and i can have the axles custom modded to whatever combo is best and if lengthening or shortening of the shaft/s is required of the front or rear shaft or both?
Any input into drive-shaft mods required would be appreciated

I know the M119.980 /722.6 conversion sounds like a massive headache & cost but most of the work i will do myself except for the tuning and it is just a pet dream of mine to have that engine/combo running sweet in an SEC as it is not the norm

I have a full kit for the WB conversion that was sourced from the batch that were made up in LA back in 2010 by 48HP (Henric) and his mates and was thinking this engine/trans combo would make it very unique over here in Australia.

Would appreciate any serious technical input into what is required for the engine/trans conversion process and if you think it is possible to convert the throttle body back to cable operation or not?

Cheers
Kim

 

[Uberwagon]

The M119 isn't worth tuning unless you want to spend silly money.

On my 500e the heads are nicely flowed as standard, the gains people have been getting from full tubular systems have barely been noticeable and a set of cams will set you back most of your rebuild budget with little gain.

A 560 engine in good tune with a nice exhaust will give you pretty much the same result with much less cost and hassle.

The M119 is not a tuners engine and was the reason why the Renntech, Brabus etc tuners charged so much, it was VERY hard to get worthwhile gains from.

The only guaranteed route to more power is an increase in capacity and I don't think you would see any change from 5K, for a 50/60hp gain. This is before you start to think about people who can tune them, which the americans have found out is very hard indeed. Most try to get a copy of the eproms of the Renntech, Brabus engined cars.

Dave!

 

[KRH500sec]

Hi Dave and thanks for you input
Yes i am familiar with the E500 forum group who have all stuck with the factory electronics with a few tweeks.

I am keen to break that path and go with a Haltech ECU and custom tune with the M119.980 engine conversion idea (the engine and trans are in very good condition as i know its history purchased from an MB Authorised Workshop owner who i know)

I have already spoken to local RPW (Racing Performance Works) Tuners over here about a Haltech custom dyno tune on the Variable Inlet quad Cam M119 and they don't see it as a problem.
In fact they stated they would prefer to start with a blank Canvas to tune it
My dilemma is the FBW throttle body - converting to cable throttle set-up
To stick with FBW i would require to purchase the newly released Haltech Elite ECU when i already have a spare Haltech 2000 to wire up

I like the idea of the black 560 widebody project being powered by a quad cam M119 with a 722.620 5 speed auto for a smooth driving weekend street cruiser.
This is my 2nd best option to a M117 quad cam (which i can't source)

So assuming i am tacking this head on -please anyone provide any technical conversion tips on -
mounting the engine / mounting the trans
Mating the driveshaft halves (mods required to fit the shaft)
Installing the W140 shifter /connecting rod mods
Etc
Cheers Kim