W210 Estate Geometry (Moved)

[carlsson 986]

W210 Estate geometry
I am currently in MB Birmingham having my E320 CDI Avantgarde estate geometry being done again!

This stems from the car shredding the front nearside tyre on the inside shoulder on what was otherwise a good tyre having covered 16000 miles since the end of January. The rear nearside too was found to be similarly on the way out and has had to be replaced. I apparently have potholed the car causing the problem, but this is unbeknown to me and I'm the driver! A second replacement tyre lasted 300 miles and it is now also scrap. All the wear on inside shoulder through to canvas.

The car runs on 18" MB rims 8 or 8.5" front (I can't remember) and 9" rears shod with Avon tyres. The car was bought second hand and came with factory AMG spec set up but for 16" rims according to the build sheet and I feel I am getting the proverbial run around because I am being told that my 18" rims will not suit the car and the tyres are not MB approved - I thought the whole point of having a geometry set up was to suit the rims on the car! This is therefore a load of tosh (polite) and I need some ammunition to get them to set the car up properly.

So what would cause such a dramatic change in the tyres after 16K uneventful motorway miles - the usual suspects, camber, castor, toe in/out etc come to mind but the adjustment schedule from MB shows all settings were originall within the tolerances set by MB, with only minor adjustment, and the left front had the same reading before and after??? So what did they do?

Yours - Perplexed

Ric

 

[carlsson 986]

Geometry Update

Got the car back at lunchtime and had an in depth conversation with the technician who set the suspension up, which made a pleasant change in getting someone to talk sensibly to you. he even had the build list from Daimler which confirmed that the car was factory fitted with 18's and Dunlops.

However, having reviewed the set up detailed figures, the front wheel had not changed setting from before/after, and we were unable to say why the first tyre had gone and then the second tyre in such a short period without something being radically adrift.

So I am no further forward really. Comment was passed as to the tyres being suitable for the car, Avons not being on the preferred MB list, but I cannot see how this affects things.

Would appreciate some help from those more knowledgeable ones out there.

Cheers Ric

 

[wheels-inmotion]

Tricky one without looking at the geo reports? Fact is the bigger wider tyre mainly needs new toe positions. If the wheels are not MB approved the only worry would be the off-set plus if this were the criminal both front tyres would be wearing the same.

Since the wear is confined to the very inside the criminal angle is probably camber, so we would need to know what values you currently have, in addition if the car is modified in areas like wheel size and off-set then you would need a custom geometry not the OEM MB target datum.

 

[carlsson 986]

W210 geometry

Thanks Wheels - the wheels and suspension are factory AMG set up, so nothing has changed from that point of view. It's only the tyres that are not MB approved, so I would be interested to hear from others about their experiences with non-MB tyres.

I've attached the readings from the set up on 6 July, so you can see the actual readings, and the front camber has not changed on the left and by only 2' (minutes of a degree) on the right, so why has there been so much wear on one wheel and not the other?

Ric

 

[wheels-inmotion]

Sorry that image wont expand so i cant read the datum, can you post in another format or email it to me [email protected] so i can read it.

 

[rizlar]

I'm having a similar problem with Avons on my car which I think is exactly the same as Carlsson's . I had a blow out on the rear o/s on Sat and when I took the wheel off the inner side seemed very worn and that is where the tyre had failed, the other side was fine but that had a Pirelli P Zero on it. I got another P Zero to replace the Avon that failed. Today I had a guy from the local MB dealer come over and do one of those free complete car checks that they do to try and temp you into using them to service the car. He noticed that now the front o/s tyre (another Avon) has a bulge in the inner tyre wall and needs replacing as it is dangerous. He also suggested the car has a full geometry check. Not sure if the Geometry check is worth it.

 

[carlsson 986]

Geometry

Rizlar Hi,

I would say yes get the check done - I paid £150 for two hours work - then you will at least know from the MB dealer if any settings were out to cause the blow out.

I don't profess to be knowledgeable on the matter but the equipment requires the car weighted by MB and uses floating plates on which the car sits and these indicate the settings of each wheel in realtion to the car and one another. Someone will be along to correct/comment on this I'm sure!

How many miles had you done on the tyres out of interest? Did the MB bloke say anything about the Avons being the wrong tyres for the car/unapproved?

Ric
PS Nice car - must be it's the same as mine!!

 

[Benzowner]

Just read this post, as a matter of interest, when the damaged tyre was originally fitted, did you have the steering geometry checked. The reason I ask, I once had an Avantgard estate and did the same thing, but when the guy put the computer disc in the machine to align the geometry he said, god this is miles out but noticed the Avantgard badge and realised what he had done. He put the disc in for what was then the Elegance. The Avantgard had a lower suspension and obviously different geometry, I presume this is still the same.

 

[rizlar]

Thanks for the responses. I went to the tyre place this morning and got both Avons on the front changed for P Zeros as the one with the bulge and the other side were both showing signs for heavy wear on the inside edge. They suggested that it was the tracking. As the wife is taking the car to Cornwall (I live in Surrey) next week I asked them to look at the tracking, which it transpired was way out. On the report they gave me it looked like they measured the camber etc etc as well and they all "within limits". I've booked it in for a geometry check at the MB dealer anyway because as you say it's not a great deal on money and it will give more piece of mind. I've only had the car a month or so and even though I know the guy I bought it from and know the history I'm keen to get it all sorted out so at least I start off with a "sorted" car.

 

[carlsson 986]

Geoff Hi,

Yes the car was all set up with four new tyres back in January - Avon ZZ3 all round, and I have had 16000 trouble free miles until now. The tread wear over the rest of the tyres is hardly noticeable so I would have expected at least the same again had it not been for this rapid wear factor, which no-one seems able or willing to accept responsibilty for.

 

[rizlar]

Carlsson, I think Avons are just rubbish, they seem to get a slating on other motoring forums. I'll let you know how I get on with the P zeros. After my experience and what you're going through I'm not fitting Avons again.

 

[cl 600]

I had 2 w210s and had the same problem with both. Both were bought new by me. It is nothing to do with tyres. I was at my wits end trying to get it sorted. I never did I just traded the car. Sorry I cant ogffer any help or comfort.

 

[carlsson 986]

I think I will probably follow your lead, rizlar, and give the avons a miss next time round although I have to say, I have no complaints other than this issue with them. The tyres have been sent away for analysis so will await their findings. This too is my second W210 and it was also affected by tyre wear in the same way, had it set up, then someone wrote it off for me, hence this new one. Don't get me wrong, the car is otherwise great, don't want to get rid of it yet though!