W212 Rear Subframe Corroded

[DSM10000]

No confusion. As stated, steel lines are generally pre-formed for installation at production and not later replacement due to their relative inflexability.

By the the term "stock" are you referring to factory fitted brake lines or what a Parts Dept would have "in stock"?

 

[ChrisPDuck]

On the question of whether a replaced subframe would need doing again in the future, is there any reason why it couldn’t be pumped full of Waxoyl (or similar)? Never having seen one myself, what sort of section are we talking about, and are there already access holes for inserting a spray lance?

 

[MrGreedy]

When I had my w212 2011 subframe replaced a few months ago, I wanted to ask about brake lines, but others who have had brake lines replaced during this time have been forced down the like for like steel brake line replacement, which also triggers the genuine Merc steel brake line premium price, and continues to risk the longevity issue of steel lines vs better (IMO) copper alloy brake lines. Therefore I didn't ask at booking in time. Once the car was booked in for subframe inspection, and results were back, I did ask if the rear brake lines were okay and was told all was fine. Not sure I trust this, but given other's experience of circa £700-800 for Merc steel lines, I'm prepared to pay the same for and Indy to drop the subframe and fit copper.

 

[DSM10000]

On the question of whether a replaced subframe would need doing again in the future, is there any reason why it couldn’t be pumped full of Waxoyl (or similar)? Never having seen one myself, what sort of section are we talking about, and are there already access holes for inserting a spray lance?

The rest of the car will have long moved beyond economic repair by the time a replacement subframe corrodes.

 

[DSM10000]

When I had my w212 2011 subframe replaced a few months ago, I wanted to ask about brake lines, but others who have had brake lines replaced during this time have been forced down the like for like steel brake line replacement, which also triggers the genuine Merc steel brake line premium price, and continues to risk the longevity issue of steel lines vs better (IMO) copper alloy brake lines. Therefore I didn't ask at booking in time. Once the car was booked in for subframe inspection, and results were back, I did ask if the rear brake lines were okay and was told all was fine. Not sure I trust this, but given other's experience of circa £700-800 for Merc steel lines, I'm prepared to pay the same for and Indy to drop the subframe and fit copper.

Hopefully Kunifer!

 

[190]

On the question of whether a replaced subframe would need doing again in the future, is there any reason why it couldn’t be pumped full of Waxoyl (or similar)? Never having seen one myself, what sort of section are we talking about, and are there already access holes for inserting a spray lance?

Yes plenty of holes to spray Waxoyl into and I did exactly that but not until the car was 10 years old. Better late than never and must have helped it last to the current 15 years without failure. It hasn't completely prevented internal rust but I spray more in every year during a pre - MOT inspection.

 

[ALFAitalia]

Steel brake lines just need looking after....mine are all original at 15 years and 175,000 miles. An annual look over before the MOT and sanding and repainting or any areas of surface corrosion, movement damage or stone chips in the protective coating should have them lasting longer than the car. However on my cars the pipes are exposed full length, not hidden behind covers or above subframes.

 

[ALFAitalia]

On the subject of replacement subframes rusting....well surely that should not be the case....the later frames (after 2016 at a guess???) don't seem to be anywhere near as prone to structural failure through corrosion. So surely the replacement ones must be better than the early ones.....
Of course extra protection can't do any harm.

 

[ChrisPDuck]

Yes plenty of holes to spray Waxoyl into and I did exactly that but not until the car was 10 years old. Better late than never and must have helped it last to the current 15 years without failure. It hasn't completely prevented internal rust but I spray more in every year during a pre - MOT inspection.

I once sold a 2CV to someone who was a bit of a trader in the model. As part of his inspection he lay down and thumped the chassis with his fist - apparently checking to see if he could hear loose rust inside the chassis members. He said if he had, he would simply fill the chassis with Waxoyl to stop the rust rattling, in case the next buyer knew what to listen for! But clearly it would also stop the rust in its tracks, so yes, better late than never.

 

[costacor]

As the OP I only posted this thread to inform the community that clearly MB is honoring claims on the subframe. MB Colchester had already got it approved from MB by the time they told me about the subframe failure. No fuss at all. Turnaround was just over a week, but this was due to number of cars needing work, not a lack of parts. The problem is well known now in the dealer network

I know they fit a new part # now but have no idea whether this solves the rust problem in future. It’s too early to know whether the new subframes suffer this problem too

For now, I intend the keep the car. I still use the service plan.

As I said before they gave me an AMG line spec A class as a hire car and I hated it. I’m 53 now and sports seats aren’t my thing! When I got back in my avantgarde e350
class it was night and day, I guess I’m just too old for sporty seats with my bad back! Clearly my Alfa Romeo days are over!

 

[costacor]

No confusion. As stated, steel lines are generally pre-formed for installation at production and not later replacement due to their relative inflexability.

By the the term "stock" are you referring to factory fitted brake lines or what a Parts Dept would have "in stock"?

Yeah exactly that, they fitted steel when they built it so I assumed they would do that in the repair. I’m happy they put copper in. Not expected

 

[DSM10000]

Yeah exactly that, they fitted steel when they built it so I assumed they would do that in the repair. I’m happy they put copper in. Not expected

But, as explained previously steel is inflexible and cannot be rolled for transport or storage easily so Kunifer (not copper) is used

 

[costacor]

But, as explained previously steel is inflexible and cannot be rolled for transport or storage easily so Kunifer (not copper) is used

So you are saying it standard to use copper for repairs? I didn’t know that. Hence my confusion

 

[TrueSpirit]

Took my car to MB Beaconsfield for them to look at the subframe to replace it under goodwill and they'll confirm it a few days whether they'll be covering it. I'll get a quote for the brakelines replacement too. Interestingly though on a BMW 645ci last year, the rear subframe had to be dropped to replace the brake lines and the whole work cost gbp500 which is pretty impressive.

 

[ChrisHGTV]

When I had my w212 2011 subframe replaced a few months ago, I wanted to ask about brake lines, but others who have had brake lines replaced during this time have been forced down the like for like steel brake line replacement, which also triggers the genuine Merc steel brake line premium price, and continues to risk the longevity issue of steel lines vs better (IMO) copper alloy brake lines. Therefore I didn't ask at booking in time. Once the car was booked in for subframe inspection, and results were back, I did ask if the rear brake lines were okay and was told all was fine. Not sure I trust this, but given other's experience of circa £700-800 for Merc steel lines, I'm prepared to pay the same for and Indy to drop the subframe and fit copper.

Is it absolutely necessary to drop the frame though, could the pipes just be routed differently with the frame in situ? I had this done on my Alfa as it would be an engine out job to follow the original routing. A year or so ago I had all the lines replaced for the princely sum of £450 at an Indy specialist.

 

[DSM10000]

So you are saying it standard to use copper for repairs? I didn’t know that. Hence my confusion

No, and others have stated that Kunifer, not Copper is common for repairs.

 

[costacor]

No, and others have stated that Kunifer, not Copper is common for repairs.

Learn something new everyday. Thanks

 

[190]

Steel brake lines just need looking after....mine are all original at 15 years and 175,000 miles. An annual look over before the MOT and sanding and repainting or any areas of surface corrosion, movement damage or stone chips in the protective coating should have them lasting longer than the car. However on my cars the pipes are exposed full length, not hidden behind covers or above subframes.

I did that for the 21 years I owned my 190e and the original brake lines were still in place when I sold it at 26 years old.

I tried to do the same with my W204 but the line that passes over the rear from where it exits the near side wheel arch liner can't easily be done without the car on a proper lift. I couldn't even see the whole length of the line never mind reach it with the car on shallow ramps and it's only that section that fails. The rest are pristine on my 15 year old W204 because they are protected by the near side under tray and the rear wheel arch liner.

 

[AMGeed]

Is it absolutely necessary to drop the frame though, could the pipes just be routed differently with the frame in situ? I had this done on my Alfa as it would be an engine out job to follow the original routing. A year or so ago I had all the lines replaced for the princely sum of £450 at an Indy specialist.

If its anything like a W204, the rear brake pipes can be replaced without dropping the sub frame.
Had mine done for a princely £160. Not at a MB specialist garage though.

 

[Fastcar155]

Mercedes rear sub frames to me can be split into two camps, rust free or rotten. Would suspect that the real issue here is where Mercedes source the frames from !