Whats your strategy for year 2030 / ban of ICE vehicles?

[Bellow]

If you tie a C63 to an C220 CDI, rear-to-rear, then maybe

It would have to be something less stressed than a C63....

But you can't seriously rely on (unmodified...) AMGs to be everywhere and quickly capture all the NOx gasses before the pedestrians alongside the road breathe them into their lungs......

Obviously, but the point remains. EVs do not improve the air quality they only don't make it worse.

 

[markjay]

....Obviously, but the point remains. EVs do not improve the air quality they only don't make it worse...

I don't disagree, but it's down to semantics, I think.

An EV added to cars already travelling through the city centre will not improve the air quality, it only won't make it worse.

An EV replacing a Diesel car in the city centre will 'bring about' an improvement to air quality.

But I agree that EVs are not mobile air purifiers......

 

[Bellow]

An EV added to cars already travelling through the city centre will not improve the air quality, it only won't make it worse.

An EV replacing a Diesel car in the city centre will 'bring about' an improvement to air quality.

But I agree that EVs are not mobile air purifiers......

An EV replacing a zero NOx petrol/LPG car in the city centre will 'bring about' ?

I don't disagree, but it's down to semantics, I think.

Indeed. Replace 'improving air quality' with 'non polluting' and we are 100% factual.

 

[Swotty]

 

[markjay]

View attachment 123559

Aa I said before... 'car' and 'green' are mutually exclusive, unless you are referring to the paintwork........

 

[markjay]

An EV replacing a zero NOx petrol/LPG car in the city centre will 'bring about' ?


Indeed. Replace 'improving air quality' with 'non polluting' and we are 100% factual.

If I am not mistaken then the corner you are fighting here is that it's possible to have non-polluting ICE cars that won't have an adverse impact on human health in urban areas.

I am not savvi abough about the science, and can't really comment on the chemistry and biology behind the relationship between carbon fuel emissions and human health, but I do have a sense of a dead horse being flogged.

Battery and Fuel Cell vehicles deliver zero-exhaust-emissions. I think you'll have a hard time selling the idea that having some exhaust emissions is somehow better than having no exhaust emissions... as far as the health of people breathing the air near and around these cars is concerned, anyway.

 

[Bellow]

If I am not mistaken then the corner you are fighting here is that it's possible to have non-polluting ICE cars that won't have an adverse impact on human health in urban areas.

Yes.
The principle pollutant of concern in cities is NOx and that is problematic because high pressure (diesel and turbo petrol) are inclined towards its production and the mitigation methods are costly and unreliable.
A low pressure engine can largely avoid producing NOx (and what NOx it does produce can be easily dealt with by a simple 3-way cat) - but is not immune to CO2 production. But....

I am not savvi abough about the science, and can't really comment on the chemistry and biology behind the relationship between carbon fuel emissions and human health, but I do have a sense of a dead horse being flogged.

Battery and Fuel Cell vehicles deliver zero-exhaust-emissions. I think you'll have a hard time selling the idea that having some exhaust emissions is somehow better than having no exhaust emissions... as far as the health of people breathing the air near and around these cars is concerned, anyway.

.....CO2 is not a pollutant as far as public health is concerned. Thus, we should not close off the possibility of ICE running on sustainable bio/synthetic fuels and that being no more injurious to public health than EVs.

 

[markjay]

Yes.
The principle pollutant of concern in cities is NOx and that is problematic because high pressure (diesel and turbo petrol) are inclined towards its production and the mitigation methods are costly and unreliable.
A low pressure engine can largely avoid producing NOx (and what NOx it does produce can be easily dealt with by a simple 3-way cat) - but is not immune to CO2 production. But....

.....CO2 is not a pollutant as far as public health is concerned. Thus, we should not close off the possibility of ICE running on sustainable bio/synthetic fuels and that being no more injurious to public health than EVs.

OK, but do you know of many ICE cars that produce only CO2....?

 

[Bellow]

OK, but do you know of many ICE cars that produce only CO2....?

Without having the NOx limits permitted at hand, I can't say. And, even those meeting low NOx requirements only do so when their emissions kit is well maintained and un-tampered with and possibly there aren't any currently. But that is because low CO2 emissions have been prioritised over all else. High NOx output is a direct result of that policy.
Reduce the concern of CO2 by using bio/synthetic fuels and engines can be built that produce minimal (if any NOx).

 

[Dippo]

Many people used to believe that green cars were unlucky. At the time, I thought it was superstition - but they may have been right!

 

[GrahamT]

I recently had a Mercedes EQA 250 as a courtesy car whilst my E220d estate was in for some work.
To say that I found it utterly unengaging is a gross understatement. I have been led to believe that electric cars with their 'instant torque' were blisteringly fast. Well this one wasn't . It felt very significantly slower off the line. Not for me I'm afraid !

 

[markjay]

Without having the NOx limits permitted at hand, I can't say. And, even those meeting low NOx requirements only do so when their emissions kit is well maintained and un-tampered with and possibly there aren't any currently. But that is because low CO2 emissions have been prioritised over all else. High NOx output is a direct result of that policy.
Reduce the concern of CO2 by using bio/synthetic fuels and engines can be built that produce minimal (if any NOx).

Possibly, but why bother with all this in the first place? Zero-exhaust-emissions vehicle simply makes the whole issue of exhaust emissions go away....

 

[markjay]

I recently had a Mercedes EQA 250 as a courtesy car whilst my E220d estate was in for some work.
To say that I found it utterly unengaging is a gross understatement. I have been led to believe that electric cars with their 'instant torque' were blisteringly fast. Well this one wasn't . It felt very significantly slower off the line. Not for me I'm afraid !

EVs can be fast, but not all are. A colleague at work has the dual-motor Tesla and the acceleration in neck breaking, literally....

That said, I have no interest in acceleration. At 8.5 sec 0-60, my brand new EV is only 1 sec quicker than my 8 years old 1.6L W204. Which is more than fine for me.

If you wanted acceleration, you should be opting for the EQC 400 with 4.4 sec 0-60.... but as I said, personally, I'm not interested.

 

[Bellow]

Possibly, but why bother with all this in the first place? Zero-exhaust-emissions vehicle simply makes the whole issue of exhaust emissions go away....

Not CO2 emissions they don't - their raison d'etre.

You've read this >> Are electric cars the new 'diesel scandal' waiting to happen? I take it? Hard to read it and assume electrification of cars has as bright a future as some hope and imagine.

 

[markjay]

Not CO2 emissions they don't - their raison d'etre.

You've read this >> Are electric cars the new 'diesel scandal' waiting to happen? I take it? Hard to read it and assume electrification of cars has as bright a future as some hope and imagine.

I do not follow - is anyone suggesting that EVs actually cause more CO2 emissions than ICE cars (over their lifetime)? If so, then I have not heard this argument before.

 

[Tonye]

EVs actually cause more CO2 emissions than ICE cars

May be they do, my SL is 21 years old and still going strong, an EV might be scrap in 10 or require yet another battery, depends on how much CO2 is emitted to produce either again.

 

[190]

I do not follow - is anyone suggesting that EVs actually cause more CO2 emissions than ICE cars (over their lifetime)? If so, then I have not heard this argument before.

It's a complicated question.

All studies I've read suggest that EV's have higher manufacturing emissions than IC's due to the battery but lower life time emissions. An EV doesn't become greener than an IC until it's several years old and has covered reasonable miles.

I was going to post a link but who's to say it's the definitive study as they don't all agree and anyway these studies often use a weedy EV such as the Nissan leaf for the purpose of comparison with an IC.

To generalise, in terms of emissions I think you can say that at this moment in time:

A brand new EV represents worse emissions than a comparable brand new IC.

The EV will overtake the IC in X years with X depending on the distance driven.

It's probably a mistake to buy an EV and drive extremely low annual miles and think you are being green because the break even point could be 10 years or more and never be reached especially if it ever needs a new battery.

 

[Red C220]

Collected this on Saturday. It's the first of the next generation of EV's and it's a great car that happens to be electric rather than an electric vehicle, if that makes sense.

When the replacement to this hits the market, likely in 3-4 years time. I have a feeling it will be a game changer.

In the meantime I'm looking forward to spending some time in this. Initial reaction is it's stunning and I feel like I'm driving the future. It's a 4S.

d

 

[markjay]

I feel like I'm driving the future.

You are...

 

[Ted]

That is stunning. Great colour too.