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Whats your strategy for year 2030 / ban of ICE vehicles?

markjay said:
Also the greatest number of electric busses, BTW. Nearly 1,000 of them. It's doable, it's only a question of budget and priorities.
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Not sure it is doable if Londoners awash with 'green' public transport options on their doorstep choose instead to drive an EV.
 
ChipChop said:
Not sure it is doable if Londoners awash with 'green' public transport options on their doorstep choose instead to drive an EV.
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'Londoners' is a big word... and London is a big place. This sort of unrealistic sweeping generalising doesn't really help move the debate forward....

A few figures that I Googled:

There are 2.6 million cars in Greater London. Just under 50,000 of these are EVs. Are you really suggesting that the behaviour on 50,000 EV owners out of 2.6 million car owners is characteristic of 'Londoners'?

Then, there are nearly 9 mollion people living in Greater London. There are around 3.5 million households in greater London. Of which, 54% have a car. That's 46% of 9 million - i.e. over 4 million people - who have to use some form of public transport to get around. And the majorty will be using busses. So how does the behaviour of 50,000 EV owners characterises what 'Londoners' do?

I rest my case.
 
markjay said:
'Londoners' is a big word... and London is a big place. This sort of unrealistic sweeping generalising doesn't really help move the debate forward....

A few figures that I Googled:

There are 2.6 million cars in Greater London. Just under 50,000 of these are EVs. Are you really suggesting that the behaviour on 50,000 EV owners out of 2.6 million car owners is characteristic of 'Londoners'?

Then, there are nearly 9 mollion people living in Greater London. There are around 3.5 million households in greater London. Of which, 54% have a car. That's 46% of 9 million - i.e. over 4 million people - who have to use some form of public transport to get around. And the majorty will be using busses. So how does the behaviour of 50,000 EV owners characterises what 'Londoners' do?

I rest my case.
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There has been no public debate. The powers that be seem to prefer enforcement (ULEZ) to debate.

Doomed to failure.
 
ChipChop said:
There has been no public debate. The powers that be seem to prefer enforcement (ULEZ) to debate.

Doomed to failure.
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Cool, as long as it gets you old polluters off the road soonest.
 
DRF20000 said:
Cool, as long as it gets you old polluters off the road soonest.
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As you are a person with a car on order i take it you consider yourself not to be a polluter then?
 
DRF20000 said:
I was thinking more of you old boys smoking about in 25 year old wood burners.
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Old boys? Smoking? Wood burners? Nonsensical.

Try instead to consider what resources it takes to manufacture a new car. ICE, Hybrid or EV. Hint - they are not made by the eco pixies in la la land.
 
ChipChop said:
Old boys? Smoking? Wood burners? Nonsensical.

Try instead to consider what resources it takes to manufacture a new car. ICE, Hybrid or EV. Hint - they are not made by the eco pixies in la la land.
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LOLZ
 
ChipChop said:
There has been no public debate. The powers that be seem to prefer enforcement (ULEZ) to debate.

Doomed to failure.
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ChipChop said:
Old boys? Smoking? Wood burners? Nonsensical.

Try instead to consider what resources it takes to manufacture a new car. ICE, Hybrid or EV. Hint - they are not made by the eco pixies in la la land.
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What are you proposing then? Then we should all just carry-on as usual and hope for the best? That's certainly one way to go about it.
 
S210 320cdi w201 190d 2.5

Sheds.
 
Is everything always wrong? This thread reminds me of several others like Brexit and COVID-19 whereby it seems that for some people everything which requires a coordinated response to a situation is doomed to fail, can’t possibly work, the people involved are stupid, etc.

Surely it can’t be the case that everything is doomed to fail and everyone is completely incompetent? People doing this $hit are real people just like the members of this forum, and just like the nay-sayers on this and other threads. Shock horror some of them might even be posting on this thread.

The difference between an armchair critic and person who makes things happen is not insight or competence. It’s the willingness to make difficult decisions, be prepared to get some things wrong, but most of all it’s taking responsibility for taking action.
 
Bobby Dazzler said:
The difference between an armchair critic and person who makes things happen is not insight or competence. It’s the willingness to make difficult decisions, be prepared to get some things wrong, but most of all it’s taking responsibility for taking action.
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The politicians in charge at the moment display none of those qualities, and that is not a joke. I cannot even begin to guess what the real situation will be in 2030, so I'll be hanging on to my ICE cars as long as it's reasonable to do so, then look at changing when the future is clearer. If I'm still driving - or indeed living - by 2030 I'll be over 80 anyway, so a reliable Eurobox will be all I'll need. At the moment, I'd buy either a Lexus or a Toyota hybrid.
 
markjay said:
What are you proposing then? Then we should all just carry-on as usual and hope for the best? That's certainly one way to go about it.
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See post #866 for proposals.

EV adoption imho is the definition of 'hope for the best' culture.
 
ChipChop said:
See post #866 for proposals.

EV adoption imho is the definition of 'hope for the best'.
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Oh yes. Let them start elsewhere and come back to us once they've exhausted all other avenues, that was your proposal. Luckily it won't happen, so I won't be debating the moral, ethical, and practical implications of your views as to how we should be dealing with this issue.
 
E55BOF said:
...I'll be hanging on to my ICE cars as long as it's reasonable to do so, then look at changing when the future is clearer...
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This is a very reasonable approach. Personal choice. It is also a very mature way of looking at the issue - you're not trying to convince us all that we shouldn't have EVs, just because at this time it isn't right for you personally.
 
markjay said:
Oh yes. Let them start elsewhere and come back to us once they've exhausted all other avenues, that was your proposal. Luckily it won't happen, so I won't be debating the moral, ethical, and practical implications of your views as to how we should be dealing with this issue.
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Some first world guilt going on there. The electric car. A product so good you have to shame people into considering buying one.

Post #866 btw ...

"Taking away personal mobility from the public is such a regressive social policy. All the benefits personal mobility has given to mankind in the first world and beyond.

You would think a simple cost benefit analysis would identify other environmentally damaging industries as far more worthy targets than the automotive manufacturers. Try the defense industry for a start or the tech industry and their disposable inane products."
 
E55BOF said:
The politicians in charge at the moment display none of those qualities, and that is not a joke.
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Let’s not make this about politics, but if politicians don’t display those qualities now, then did they ever?

Or is it simply the case that everything was better in the good old days including politicians and even taxes?

There are many experts advisors which are largely invisible when it comes to such matters only the politician is centre stage.

The lead singer is where the spot lights aim, with other musicians, backing vocalists and dancers in the shadows.

The producer, author, choreographer, manager, roadies, sound & lighting technicians, tour manager, etc out of sight.

The singer ia really important, but is often just one cog in a much bigger machine. You just don’t see the rest on stage.
 
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