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Whats your strategy for year 2030 / ban of ICE vehicles?

markjay said:
Yes. Just like new car warranty.
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Ta. So if I bought a 5 year old EV and the battery warranty was 7 years, the 2 year balance would be transferable to me?
 
Gollom said:
Ta. So if I bought a 5 year old EV and the battery warranty was 7 years, the 2 year balance would be transferable to me?
Click to expand...

Yes.

BUT.... manufacturers seem to be keeping very close to their chest some crucial information regarding the battery warranty... it's all good and well if a couple of cells fail and they get replaced under the battery warranty, but what if the battery simply degrades over time - I.e it is a consumable item, after all - i.e., at what level of performance loss will the battery get replaced under warranty? 30%? 50%? No one seems to know, and it will be a while before we see actual warranty claims for excessive battery degradation. So for now, EV manufacturers seem to be keeping us in the dark on this issue.

Which reminds me when flat screens become common some 20 years ago, people thought that a dead pixel will get them a new screen under warranty, only to find out that different manufacturers had different ideas regarding the percentage of pixels that need to be dead before the screen can be replaced under warranty.
 
markjay said:
BUT.... manufacturers seem to be keeping very close to their chest some crucial information regarding the battery warranty... it's all good and well if a couple of cells fail and they get replaced under the battery warranty, but what if the battery simply degrades over time - I.e it is a consumable item, after all - i.e., at what level of performance loss will the battery get replaced under warranty? 30%? 50%? No one seems to know, and it will be a while before we see actual warranty claims for excessive battery degradation. So for now, EV manufacturers seem to be keeping us in the dark on this issue.
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I don't claim to have looked at all the different warranties but the common figure seems to be 70% i.e during the warranty period they will repair or replace the battery if for whatever reason it falls below 70% of original capacity. That seem to me a quite encouraging criteria. The caveat is that "the vehicle is used correctly" which I suppose means that the warranty is void if they can show the optimum charge/discharge regime has not been followed.
 
190 said:
I don't claim to have looked at all the different warranties but the common figure seems to be 70% i.e during the warranty period they will repair or replace the battery if for whatever reason it falls below 70% of original capacity. That seem to me a quite encouraging criteria. The caveat is that "the vehicle is used correctly" which I suppose means that the warranty is void if they can show the optimum charge/discharge regime has not been followed.
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That's good news, if it means that at 8 years cars will still have at least 70% of the battery capacity.

I think they'll have to prove that the owner did something that the user's manual says you shouldn't do, rather than just not followed the 'optimal' process, though.
 
markjay said:
So for now, EV manufacturers seem to be keeping us in the dark on this issue.
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Well you stick half a tonne of cells into a vehicle and then organise these hierachically into banks of cells and you have a number of different strategies by which you manage discharging them to drive the car and to charge them - aimed at speed and wear leveling.

The combine that with different driving and charging patterns.

So one driver might use the car hard and run the battery down to minimum and gthen fats charge it up again - another might use it gently and top up frequently.

I wouldn't be surprised if the management systems won't be adaptive - trying to optimise to whatever discharge and charging patterns they experience.

Maybe in two or three years there will be posts in these forums about how to reset the battery management adaptations - just as we see advice about resetting automatic transmission shift pattern adaptations.

The manufacturers could decide to have different wear strategies.

If the battery management wore out the banks in order and they could be replaced would could have battery packs where individual banks could be replaced - allowing the battery to be replenished with new cells as sevice item and the battery as whole kept in peak condition.

Alternatively if they level the wear across the whole battery then it will gradually degrade until it needs replacement as a whole.

I rather like the first approach - in principle.
 
My friends early 82,000 mile ZOE EV needs a battery as it now has a tiny range of about 65 miles!.....been quoted a bit over £5200 to replace it!....Bargain.....its not worth that much (see todays Glasses prices below) so its going to the scrapper....So in our efforts to save the planet we have effectively created the disposable car! Very green.

s0528070.jpg

Model Availability
05/2015 - 10/2016
2015, Renault, Zoe, E (88bhp) Expression Nav Hatchback 5d Auto
Automatic transmission, 1 speed, Hatchback, Electric (Battery), Front wheel drive, 0.0 g/km, G/C: M4TW, N/C: 210820001, V-ID: 708272
Date of Registration: 01/01/2015
List Price: £17,795 ▼

Glass's Trade
£3,610

Retail Transacted
£5,220
 
It’s going to the scrap yard? I’ll gladly have a car that can do 62 miles on electric rather than chuck it in the bin... would solve a lot of problems for my use case!!
 
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Just had a draft consultation paper sent to me from the local licencing section, from 2028 ALL taxis in the borough have to be ULEV and capable of going at least 70 miles on electric power alone. I'm looking to replace my current taxi in 3 years time (2025) so at that point I have to buy an electric vehicle, whether I want to or not (or leave the trade). So it's £30k+ in 3 years time for an electric rather than £8k for another saloon. Think I have a lot to think about over the next few years...... 😢
 
The early ZOEs had a 22Kwh battery and Renault were "optimistic" with their published mileage range figures- your friends car battery hasn't degraded so much as it might appear in real world terms [ starting from a low base]--- blame the manufacturer rather than the tech?

www.drivingelectric.com

Used Renault ZOE Mk1 buying guide | DrivingElectric

All the information you need to know when buying a secondhand example of the Renault ZOE Mk1, which was produced between 2013 and 2019
www.drivingelectric.com www.drivingelectric.com
 
ALFAitalia said:
My friends early 82,000 mile ZOE EV needs a battery as it now has a tiny range of about 65 miles!.....been quoted a bit over £5200 to replace it!....Bargain.....its not worth that much (see todays Glasses prices below) so its going to the scrapper....So in our efforts to save the planet we have effectively created the disposable car! Very green.

s0528070.jpg

Model Availability
05/2015 - 10/2016
2015, Renault, Zoe, E (88bhp) Expression Nav Hatchback 5d Auto
Automatic transmission, 1 speed, Hatchback, Electric (Battery), Front wheel drive, 0.0 g/km, G/C: M4TW, N/C: 210820001, V-ID: 708272
Date of Registration: 01/01/2015
List Price: £17,795 ▼

Glass's Trade
£3,610

Retail Transacted
£5,220
Click to expand...
As has been pointed out, 62 mile is a fine range for most use cases. Bit dramatic to say it needs to be scrapped - there's plenty of life left in it yet and it still has significant value of the second hand market and that battery will last years yet.
 
www.spiked-online.com

The truth about electric cars

They are far more environmentally damaging than normal cars.
www.spiked-online.com www.spiked-online.com

Seem to be a lot of current articles about EVs. In this one, there is a direct comparison made by Volvo itself on their EV and non-EV XC40 variants; the production costs of the latter are 40% lower.
 
TeddyRuxpin said:
It’s going to the scrap yard? I’ll gladly have a car that can do 62 miles on electric rather than chuck it in the bin... would solve a lot of problems for my use case!!
Click to expand...
Sounds like you need to make him an offer. Win win.
 
ALFAitalia said:
My friends early 82,000 mile ZOE EV needs a battery as it now has a tiny range of about 65 miles!.....been quoted a bit over £5200 to replace it!....Bargain.....its not worth that much (see todays Glasses prices below) so its going to the scrapper....So in our efforts to save the planet we have effectively created the disposable car! Very green.

s0528070.jpg

Model Availability
05/2015 - 10/2016
2015, Renault, Zoe, E (88bhp) Expression Nav Hatchback 5d Auto
Automatic transmission, 1 speed, Hatchback, Electric (Battery), Front wheel drive, 0.0 g/km, G/C: M4TW, N/C: 210820001, V-ID: 708272
Date of Registration: 01/01/2015
List Price: £17,795 ▼

Glass's Trade
£3,610

Retail Transacted
£5,220
Click to expand...
I’m interested if he’s really going to scrap it.
 
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