Whats your strategy for year 2030 / ban of ICE vehicles?

[grober]

The truth about electric cars

They are far more environmentally damaging than normal cars.

www.spiked-online.com

Seem to be a lot of current articles about EVs. In this one, there is a direct comparison made by Volvo itself on their EV and non-EV XC40 variants; the production costs of the latter are 40% lower.

TOPIC ALREADY COVERED IN ANOTHER THREAD ON HERE??

 

[Swotty]

TOPIC ALREADY COVERED IN ANOTHER THREAD ON HERE??

Sorry - didn't see it ... which one, please?

 

[190]

Sorry - didn't see it ... which one, please?

It's covered in the Volvo thread which frankly should have been here in the first place or at least in one of the other EV threads.

The truth about electric cars link makes the same point I did over in the Volvo thread and that is having explained the universal truth that EV's have a higher carbon foot print than IC's until some considerable mileage is reached, it then went on to focus on how this makes a nonsense of an EV as a low mileage vehicle because it may never reach the point of having a lower carbon footprint than an IC.

This issue will be partially resolved when all electricity is produced from renewables but even then very low mileage EV's may still be questionable.

I don't conclude from this that EV's are completely the wrong choice for everyone but I think the head long rush to EV's is madness. We have car manufacturers voluntarily phasing out IC's long before the dead line - why are they doing that ? You can be sure it's for their benefit and not ours.

 

[davymead]

I don't conclude from this that EV's are completely the wrong choice for everyone but I think the head long rush to EV's is madness. We have car manufacturers voluntarily phasing out IC's long before the dead line - why are they doing that ? You can be sure it's for their benefit and not ours.

With petrol cars still outselling EV’s in this country and with the world in a bit of an energy crisis, I would suggest manufacturers maybe heading for a salutary lesson in economics.

 

[chic0821]

I see Germany is ramping up its coal production so they are not relying on Mad Vlad & his oil. So much for global warming. Think the EV time frame has a lot of twists & turns to it 2030, mibees aye, mibees no

 

[Dryce]

I see Germany is ramping up its coal production so they are not relying on Mad Vlad & his oil. So much for global warming. Think the EV time frame has a lot of twists & turns to it 2030, mibees aye, mibees no

The UK should be looking at the North Sea and coal with a view to contingency and energy security.

One of the most utterly stupid decisions was the closure of Longannet in Scotland. Big power station. Stock it with some coal and let it sit in reserve in case its needed. It doesn't generate much CO2 or emissions while being kept in reserve. But our short sighted dogmatic leaders this side of the border don't think about the long term and contingency.

And while I point the finger at the short sightedness of Holyrood - it's not as if the UK as a whole has really been thinking about proper energy security either.

Covod should have been more of a wakeup call on the fragility of global supply chains and dependency across all sector.

 

[Wolfie1]

Our leaders in this country frankly are a bunch of bams, they worry more about having lez, connected smoke alarms and gender neutral toilets and changing rooms than actually sorting the real issues out!

 

[Bobby Dazzler]

Our leaders in this country frankly are a bunch of bams, they worry more about having lez, connected smoke alarms and gender neutral toilets and changing rooms than actually sorting the real issues out!

Connected smoke alarms?

 

[BigJase88]

Connected smoke alarms?

Only in Scotland

Wee nippy thinks it's a good idea along with chopping the bottom off fire doors

She a crackpot

 

[Jibbajabba]

2030 …. I might be dead by then. So for now I stick with my E63S and go with the flow.

 

[Dryce]

Connected smoke alarms?

I have a vulnerable relative who had new smoke alarms put in by the local council last year - these are connected to a community alarm system that dials a monitoring centre.

But

They don't meet the 'tolerable standard'.

The fire brigade kindly came around and arranged the installation of some additional alarms that are interlinked with each other *but not connected to the community alarm.

So what's better? I set of alarms registered and maintained by the council with 7 year batteries (all noted and logged with dates by the council so that they can be maintained) that connect back to a monitoring centre.

Or a set of the cheapest alarms installed - left without paperwork - that only talk to each other - and have 10 year batteries - - with the vulnerable householder 'on their own' when it comes to maintenance and faults.

Oh yes - and both paid for by public money.

 

[markjay]

Old thread revival...

Electric vehicle TIRES produce 20% more pollution than gas equivalents

Breaking news: The average EV producers as much tyre-related pollution as your average van (or Range Rover or Hilux etc).

Not sure why the world is discovering this by piecemeal, but eventually they'll all wake up to the idea that EVs aren't the solution to our personal mobility issues.

Cars aren't green... full stop. They can't be, and never will be. We need to have less cars (whether powered by ICE, EV, Hydrogen, or fairy dust), and drive them less.

There's simply no green way of producing and then usibg large metal objects as means of personal transport.

 

[190]

I'm firmly of the belief that to date the mad rush to EV's as produced more pollution through the higher carbon foot print to manufacture them than if we had done nothing. This situation won't be corrected until electricity ceases to be generated by fossil fuels and the EV's have done substantial miles. Some of them never will break even.

It's fascinating looking back on this thread that some earlier concerns are beginning to ring true. The rate of EV sales growth has stalled in the UK, Europe, USA and presumably other markets too. That's a bit of a coincidence. The car manufacturers are beginning to look quite sick, Volkswagen in particular is in financial trouble.

Someone made an interesting comparison with electric lighting. Governments banned incandescent light bulbs and sold us the dud of compact fluorescents which are toxic to dispose of. If they had held back just a few years we could have gone straight to LEDs.

We were also sold a dud with diesels and It will inevitably be the same with EV's . Current battery technology will soon be outdated to be replaced with solid state batteries or something else that's a vast improvement.

To answer the original question of this thread, I think my next car at least will be an IC and hopefully after that EV's will have reached the stage where they are genuinely a low carbon option.. As far as any concern that the value of an IC will tank in 2030, I think the opposite will happen, they will be in great demand unless the government interferes.

 

[markjay]

I'm firmly of the belief that to date the mad rush to EV's as produced more pollution through the higher carbon foot print to manufacture them than if we had done nothing. This situation won't be corrected until electricity ceases to be generated by fossil fuels and the EV's have done substantial miles. Some of them never will break even.

It's fascinating looking back on this thread that some earlier concerns are beginning to ring true. The rate of EV sales growth has stalled in the UK, Europe, USA and presumably other markets too. That's a bit of a coincidence. The car manufacturers are beginning to look quite sick, Volkswagen in particular is in financial trouble.

Someone made an interesting comparison with electric lighting. Governments banned incandescent light bulbs and sold us the dud of compact fluorescents which are toxic to dispose of. If they had held back just a few years we could have gone straight to LEDs.

We were also sold a dud with diesels and It will inevitably be the same with EV's . Current battery technology will soon be outdated to be replaced with solid state batteries or something else that's a vast improvement.

To answer the original question of this thread, I think my next car at least will be an IC and hopefully after that EV's will have reached the stage where they are genuinely a low carbon option.. As far as any concern that the value of an IC will tank in 2030, I think the opposite will happen, they will be in great demand unless the government interferes.

EVs are meant to tackle two very specific issues: the first is the elimination of harmful exhaust emissions in urban areas, and the second is providing a centralised energy production system for cars, than will allow us to change energy sources easily (e.g. from coal to nuclear or to renewable etc). And they do these two well.

But apart from the above, they are just as bad as ICE cars, if not worse.

 

[Tonye]

As far as any concern that the value of an IC will tank in 2030, I think the opposite will happen, they will be in great demand unless the government interferes

Right on the button, especially small to mid range models, i best order 20 asap and mothball them.

 

[davymead]

I’ve posted numerous times about the complete and utter drought of leadership in this once wonderful country of ours when it comes to any form of managerial innovation or planning for our future. Debacle after debacle costing ordinary folks their hard earned money with a huge catalogue of failures in forethought. HS2, EV’s, Heat Pumps etc to name but a few are the latest drain on resources, all to appease bloated ego’s spouting their ‘green’ agenda to allegedly enhance their personal standing on the political stage. Step forward someone with an ounce of common.

 

[Deleted member 55947]

Right on the button, especially small to mid range models, i best order 20 asap and mothball them.

The problem with that is when will manufacturers stop making ICE vehicles? The ban comes in 2030 so it’s not unreasonable to expect production to cease in 2026/7 unless of course they have a large order book

 

[ALFAitalia]

Right on the button, especially small to mid range models, i best order 20 asap and mothball them.

I think the opposite.....you are thinking like a petrolhead like me.......but the VAST majority of the public are not "car people" and really could not care less what powers their cars. My father (despite my best efforts!) is going EV next time. He's just looking as the cost to run and the fact that you wont be able to buy ICE cars in just 6.5 years.....so it's his opinion the values of them in second hand form will tumble well before then. I don't necessarily agree.....but I think many will think just like that. With many people like him thinking like that demand for used ICE values will fall.....and then because supply will be high and demand low....the values will follow.
The only exceptions might be the type of cars owned by enthusiasts...AMG , BMW M etc. But run of the mill stuff...like a petrol Focus etc.....will fall in value....and anything derv powered is already failing fast in value....look at how few are already being sold compared to just 5 years ago.

 

[markjay]

The problem with that is when will manufacturers stop making ICE vehicles? The ban comes in 2030 so it’s not unreasonable to expect production to cease in 2026/7 unless of course they have a large order book

I think that one major stumbling block is that there are around 2m new private cars sold every year in the UK alone, and this is before taking into account the rest of the European countries.

It is really questionable how fast can automakers wrench up production of new EVs? I am not event referring to a availability of raw materials or subsystems such as batteries and semiconductors, just to the actual production capacity of the car factories.

If they are to be able to meet the need and supply tens of millions of new EVs annually within this decade, then they should start build (or convert) the factories now.

 

[davymead]

As with any commodity on this planet, the laws of supply and demand will prevail. Nobody will manufacture anything unless there is a demand for that article. I’m genuinely intrigued to watch which large conglomerates are financially able or of course willing to spend billions on design, tooling and machinery for production of an any vehicle when/if the demand is even mildly questionable. Intriguing.