Whats your strategy for year 2030 / ban of ICE vehicles?

[MikeInWimbledon]

Euro 1 emissions was way back in 1992 over 30 years ago. The EU were not too keen on bookeeping back then so i hear. Still aren't apparently. Billions unaccounted for, what a bunch of lads eh?

As an aside my 1991 w201 190 diesel had a catalytic converter fitted when i bought it in 2010 so Mercedes as ever were ahead of the game even with their diesels. I did of course gut it when i fitted a stainless center and back box.

Which billions are unaccounted for, at the moment?

Aren't you confusing this with the very old story about the EU auditors refusing to sign off EU books? Pop over to the States and you'll find very similar stories. In both cases, it's hard to pin it on the environmental activists who are calling for the CO2 reductions that we signed up for at COP26

COP26 Global Climate Change conference at Glasgow: COP26: Together for our planet | United Nations

The poliiticians you elected made this happen.

 

[markjay]

I did not say anything about a bigger plan.

My point was successive EU emission standards have strangled ICE engines and made them in many ways a shadow of what they could have been...

Surely, their intentions were good, to deliver cleaner air and reduce illness and premature deaths?

 

[markjay]

Euro 1 emissions was way back in 1992 over 30 years ago. The EU were not too keen on bookeeping back then so i hear. Still aren't apparently. Billions unaccounted for, what a bunch of lads eh?..

More Whataboutism...?

 

[ChipChop]

Do let me know where I can pick up a three year old Tesla 3 on reasonable mileage but with mind boggling depreciation.
I have £10k ready and waiting. (Preference for a blue one)

2021 Model 3, 16,000 miles, Cat N front bumper & possibly bonnet damaged, runs and drives. Currently at £4,700. It is black though. Stick in a £10,000 bid and cross your fingers.

https://www.copart.co.uk/lot/65741493/clean-title-2021-tesl-model-3-st-westbury

 

[ChipChop]

Surely, their intentions were good, to deliver cleaner air and reduce illness and premature deaths?

The EU having good intentions? Comical.

What premature deaths, plural, are you referring to? There has only ever been a single UK case where air pollution has been recognised as a contributing factor leading to premature death.

 

[MikeInWimbledon]

2021 Model 3, 16,000 miles, Cat N front bumper & possibly bonnet damaged, runs and drives. Currently at £4,700. It is black though. Stick in a £10,000 bid and cross your fingers.

https://www.copart.co.uk/lot/65741493/clean-title-2021-tesl-model-3-st-westbury

That wasn't the spec, was it ?

I'm looking for a normal EV that has suffered "mind boggling depreciation."

Something like this one which has lost a mind boggling £40k in five years.

What normal buyer would want to lose £40k in five years?





Now, we'd certainly prefer the 2018 C63 to a P100D, but the C63 has depreciated faster than the similarly priced P100D

 

[ChipChop]

That wasn't the spec, was it ?

I'm looking for a normal EV that has suffered "mind boggling depreciation."

Something like this one which has lost a mind boggling £40k in five years.

What normal buyer would want to lose £40k in five years?



View attachment 146756

If a car having a Cat marker excludes them then try searching Brightwells past auction results. They have sold ex council low miles Nisaan Leaf EV's for around the 5 grand mark in the last couple of months.

Some very cheap Renault Zoe EV's have sold recently also but they often have battery leasing to factor in (around £90 a month).


£2500

2014 Renault Zoe 65kW Dynamique Intens 5dr Auto HATCHBACK Electric Automatic | eBay

Find many great new & used options and get the best deals for 2014 Renault Zoe 65kW Dynamique Intens 5dr Auto HATCHBACK Electric Automatic at the best online prices at eBay! Free delivery for many products.

www.ebay.co.uk

£5,000

2018 Renault Zoe 22kWh Dynamique Nav Auto 5dr, Battery Lease | eBay

Find many great new & used options and get the best deals for 2018 Renault Zoe 22kWh Dynamique Nav Auto 5dr, Battery Lease at the best online prices at eBay! Free delivery for many products.

www.ebay.co.uk

 

[markjay]

The EU having good intentions? Comical.

What premature deaths, plural, are you referring to? There has only ever been a single UK case where air pollution has been recognised as a contributing factor leading to premature death.

True to form

 

[Deleted member 55947]

Tesla CEO Elon Musk also once tweeted that the battery pack in the Model 3 and Model Y was designed to last 1,500 charging cycles, which translates to about 300,000 miles for Standard Range models and about 500,000 miles for Long Range versions.

On January 6, 2022, a Tesla Model S P85 (the oldest performance version) reached an impressive mileage milestone of 932,256 miles....1.5m km
It had a battery replaced under warranty at about 150,000 miles. The motors seem to be the weak point if doing ultra high miles rather than the battery. Three units were replaced by 680,000 km and the fourth one was running up to 1,000,000 km......no info after that.

The car is used in Germany by Hansjörg von Gemmingen - Hornberg, who is known in the EV world for setting the highest mileage records in Tesla cars.

That’s a bit like Trigger’s brush

 

[davymead]

Surely, their intentions were good, to deliver cleaner air and reduce illness and premature deaths?

Do you truly believe that to be the sole reason behind that particular legislation.
Just asking.

 

[davymead]

Tell us more. I’m intrigued.

Economy in and out of deflation with propping up of the yuan, caused by foreign investment drop, property market crisis, high youth unemployment. This recent article I found interesting.

The China Model Is Dead

The nation’s problems run so deep, and the necessary repairs would be so costly, that the time for a turnaround may already have passed.

www.theatlantic.com

 

[markjay]

Do you truly believe that to be the sole reason behind that particular legislation.
Just asking.

I absolutely do.

The fact that other interested parties may have been rubbing their hands with glee thinking of their profits is just part of life - whatever the authorities decide to do, someone always profits.

I am sure the British defence industries turned a profit from all the tanks, ships, and airplanes that they built between 1939 and 1945, but to suggest that Chamberlain and later Churchill went to war at their bidding would be perverse.

 

[markjay]

Economy in and out of deflation with propping up of the yuan, caused by foreign investment drop, property market crisis, high youth unemployment. This recent article I found interesting.

The China Model Is Dead

The nation’s problems run so deep, and the necessary repairs would be so costly, that the time for a turnaround may already have passed.

www.theatlantic.com

To my mind, China's core issue is the abandonment of the party rule system and the transformation into a one-man dictatorship. This is also true for Putin, BTW (and for the US while under Trump).

These rulers think they are smarter than anyone else, and make all the decisions alone. But Organisational Psychology 101 will tell you that every study so far showed that decisions made by a group are always significantly better than those made by individuals. The Japanese mastered this art, BTW.

 

[MikeInWimbledon]

If a car having a Cat marker excludes them then try searching Brightwells past auction results. They have sold ex council low miles Nisaan Leaf EV's for around the 5 grand mark in the last couple of months.

Some very cheap Renault Zoe EV's have sold recently also but they often have battery leasing to factor in (around £90 a month).

View attachment 146760
£2500

2014 Renault Zoe 65kW Dynamique Intens 5dr Auto HATCHBACK Electric Automatic | eBay

Find many great new & used options and get the best deals for 2014 Renault Zoe 65kW Dynamique Intens 5dr Auto HATCHBACK Electric Automatic at the best online prices at eBay! Free delivery for many products.

www.ebay.co.uk

View attachment 146761

£5,000

2018 Renault Zoe 22kWh Dynamique Nav Auto 5dr, Battery Lease | eBay

Find many great new & used options and get the best deals for 2018 Renault Zoe 22kWh Dynamique Nav Auto 5dr, Battery Lease at the best online prices at eBay! Free delivery for many products.

www.ebay.co.uk

Now, we're not reading before we post, are we?

You were supposed to find me a 2018 Tesla, on normal mileage and in normal condition, for a mindblowingly depreciated £10k.

And instead, you're putting up insurance write offs and nine year old pocket runabouts, with £700 a year battery lease (assuming 6k miles a year).

I'll see your Renault Zoe and raise you an Audi A2 for £1600. Now that's what you call mind-blowing ICE depreciation.

 

[Swotty]

I absolutely do.

The fact that other interested parties may have been rubbing their hands with glee thinking of their profits is just part of life - whatever the authorities decide to do, someone always profits.

I am sure the British defence industries turned a profit from all the tanks, ships, and airplanes that they built between 1939 and 1945, but to suggest that Chamberlain and later Churchill went to war at their bidding would be perverse.

I have a bridge to sell you, MJ ... currently in Arizona but originally a genuine Bridge over the river Thames in London.

 

[markjay]

I have a bridge to sell you, MJ ... currently in Arizona but originally a genuine Bridge over the river Thames in London.

Either the world is a very, very sad place, or it's a great place but your view of it is very, very sad.

It's one of the two, for certain.

 

[markjay]

2021 Model 3, 16,000 miles, Cat N front bumper & possibly bonnet damaged, runs and drives. Currently at £4,700. It is black though. Stick in a £10,000 bid and cross your fingers.

https://www.copart.co.uk/lot/65741493/clean-title-2021-tesl-model-3-st-westbury

Yup, Cat N is a killer, cars devalue like a free-falling lift. Why the suprise? Would you buy a Cat N car from Copart? Or a repaired one, no doubt by a competent person who bought it from Copart in an auction in order to rebuild it with nothing but the best quality components and using skilled and experienced technicians, money no object

 

[MikeInWimbledon]

Any more examples of EV depreciation?

Something to equal this one, perhaps? At least £53k (or 53%) lost over five years - even though it is, honestly, ULEZ compatible.

Thank heavens that these ICE vehicles are bought by companies, in the main.

 

[markjay]

The RRP for my IONIQ 5 was £50k when I got it back in Sep 2021.

Two years on, there are 7 on sale on Autotrader with an asking price of between £33k and £35k.

That's between 30% and 34% depreciation over two years.

For comparison, in 1998 I bought a 10 months old Vauxhall Omega 2.5L with an RRP of £20k for £12k. In 2001 I bought a 4 months old Vauxhall Omega CDX 2.6L with an RRP of £24k for £14k. That's 40% depreciation in under a year.

The IONIQ 5 isn't mine, it's on a lease, but had I bought it, I'd say I got a very good deal.

Not that any if it will stop the 'EVs depreciate like a free-falling lift because no one buys them second hand' myth. A good legend is more pervasive than any boring set of facts.

 

[ChipChop]

Yup, Cat N is a killer, cars devalue like a free-falling lift. Why the suprise? Would you buy a Cat N car from Copart? Or a repaired one, no doubt by a competent person who bought it from Copart in an auction in order to rebuild it with nothing but the best quality components and using skilled and experienced technicians, money no object

I have owned cars with Cat markers on the V5 yes. Never had a problem with them.
Cat N is non structural. In the case of that Tesla that means there is no structural damage behind the plastic bumper or to the front chassis legs. Copart have even gone to the bother of removing the flimsy bit of Tesla Frunk trim to show you the non body colour inner wings, suspension turrets and chassis legs which appear to be as they came out of the factory. Undamaged. Value wise Cat N means 20 to 30% off a £40,000 retail car. So it should go for around £30,000. Currently at less than £5,000 with less than 3 days to go.