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Whats your strategy for year 2030 / ban of ICE vehicles?

ChipChop said:
Overpriced in a BEV market where there is more supply than demand.
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In a BEV market where Tesla's 50,000 sales in 2022, was less than a fifth of all EV sales (270,000) in the UK.

Yep, Tesla EV sales were outnumbered by its competitors more than four to one.

Tesla doesn't have a cat in hell's chance of maintaining that share in 2023
 
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Pontoneer said:
The couple of times I borrowed to buy cars , and once for a motorbike , it was personal loans provided by my bank , and not for the full cost of the purchase . Although not secured against the vehicle , I was a longstanding customer with the bank and my salary going into my account every month ; I kept each vehicle much longer than it took to repay the loan .
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Same here ... did it once or maybe twice in the late 70s.

Everything since then I've bought outright, including 3 new cars and a 1 year old MB demonstrator (and a new tractor!). I tend to keep things a long time so put money aside over the years for a replacement ... less easy now on a pension though :D
 
Hi , Worcester City Council has conducted another survey regarding pollution levels in a street called The Buts.

The legal level is 40 and the road runs through a mixture of low level building that are old and traps the polution.,The average level is 43.

The road is a one way road.

Cars do use the road , what percentage are petrol , diesel or battery I have no idea.

The major user ot this road a large double decker diesel engine buses going to a large bus station.

Let's say 20% of the buses don't switch off there engines but pollute the atmosphere.

It would be interesting to know how much polution one large bus pushes out compared to a car.

First Bus use to proudly use to have a plaque on the buses stating Euro 6.

Those buses seemed to have vanished !
 
All the ones near us have banners on claiming to be ultra low emissions....so I guess any bus bought in the last few years will be. Our buses are run by Stagecoach....the have EV buses and will be having a few hydrogen ones in Liverpool this year. That should make all the people who use the "Loser Cruisers" to get about on feel even more smug about their transport choice!
m.stagecoachgroup.com

Stagecoach Group | Corporate

We are a leading quality public transport provider in the UK. More than 3 million customers a day trust our greener, smarter and better value bus and rail services - and we are continuing to grow.
m.stagecoachgroup.com m.stagecoachgroup.com
 
ALFAitalia said:
All the ones near us have banners on claiming to be ultra low emissions....so I guess any bus bought in the last few years will be.
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MRDA

Screenshot 2023-09-18 at 23.32.17.png
 
Boyband said:
Hi , Worcester City Council has conducted another survey regarding pollution levels in a street called The Buts.

The legal level is 40 and the road runs through a mixture of low level building that are old and traps the polution.,The average level is 43.

The road is a one way road.

Cars do use the road , what percentage are petrol , diesel or battery I have no idea.

The major user ot this road a large double decker diesel engine buses going to a large bus station.

Let's say 20% of the buses don't switch off there engines but pollute the atmosphere.

It would be interesting to know how much polution one large bus pushes out compared to a car.

First Bus use to proudly use to have a plaque on the buses stating Euro 6.

Those buses seemed to have vanished !
Click to expand...


The key question is how extensively the buses are used by the public.

A Diesel bus carrying (say) 30 passengers will pollute much less than 30 private cars.

It also reduces congratulation because it takes less road space than 30 private cars.

But how many passengers are there on the bus? And, how many of them would have made the journey by private car if the bus service wasn't available?

Of course, we don't have this data. So the busses are either polluting horrifically, or they are preventing a lot of pollution, or anything in between.

When there's no data there's no answer, but no doubt as always they'll be two camps, one confident the bus is polluting, the other confident the the bus is greener than the car. And so it goes on... forever.
 
markjay said:
The key question is how extensively the buses are used by the public.

A Diesel bus carrying (say) 30 passengers will pollute much less than 30 private cars.

It also reduces congratulation because it takes less road space than 30 private cars.

But how many passengers are there on the bus? And, how many of them would have made the journey by private car if the bus service wasn't available?

Of course, we don't have this data. So the busses are either polluting horrifically, or they are preventing a lot of pollution, or anything in between.

When there's no data there's no answer, but no doubt as always they'll be two camps, one confident the bus is polluting, the other confident the the bus is greener than the car. And so it goes on... forever.
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Sorry, but they absolutely do have that data. It’s easy to collect.

Sadly 30 passengers only happens in in peak route and at peak time. Average utilisation, by any definition of average, is tiny.

But …. You have to have a regular service or you won’t get any customers at all.
 
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MikeInWimbledon said:
Sorry, but they absolutely do have that data. It’s easy to collect.

Sadly 30 passengers only happens in in peak route and at peak time. Average utilisation, by any definition of average, is tiny.

But …. You have to have a regular service or you won’t get any customers at all.
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As always in this debate London may be different, but my limited local experience of buses bears you out. I used a park and ride into Manchester last week and a regular observation of the huge near empty carpark suggests that demand is very low. In spite of this the buses run every 10 mins with a handful of passengers. There were only 4 or 5 when I got on. That's neither environmentally friendly or economically viable. One good point was that the bus seemed to have automatic stop start that functioned at every bus stop. The engine didn't stop at traffic lights though so the driver must have been able to override it.
 
Years ago there were some hydrogen (fuel cell) buses in London. I took this picture of this 53 plate one at the time because of the exhaust plume - I know it's only steam and not harmful but clearly not "no emissions" as plastered all over the bus :D

1695111781556.png

AFAIK all London buses have been hybrid or full electric for a while now.
 
Boyband said:
Hi , Worcester City Council has conducted another survey regarding pollution levels in a street called The Buts.

The legal level is 40 and the road runs through a mixture of low level building that are old and traps the polution.,The average level is 43.

The road is a one way road.

Cars do use the road , what percentage are petrol , diesel or battery I have no idea.

The major user ot this road a large double decker diesel engine buses going to a large bus station.

Let's say 20% of the buses don't switch off there engines but pollute the atmosphere.

It would be interesting to know how much polution one large bus pushes out compared to a car.

First Bus use to proudly use to have a plaque on the buses stating Euro 6.

Those buses seemed to have vanished !
Click to expand...
Using a street whose geography 'traps the pollution' as a yardstick for urban pollution levels sounds very much like a con. No surprise there then.
 
190 said:
As always in this debate London may be different, but my limited local experience of buses bears you out. I used a park and ride into Manchester last week and a regular observation of the huge near empty carpark suggests that demand is very low. In spite of this the buses run every 10 mins with a handful of passengers. There were only 4 or 5 when I got on. That's neither environmentally friendly or economically viable. One good point was that the bus seemed to have automatic stop start that functioned at every bus stop. The engine didn't stop at traffic lights though so the driver must have been able to override it.
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Clearly, the option of driving a private car into the city centre is till far too cheap.

Apply a punitive congestion charge on cars entering the city centre, and the buses will become both environmentally-friendly (compared to the alternative) and commercially viable.
 
Darrell said:
Buses instead of cars?? Read my previous comments from the ULEZ expansion thread about travelling to work on buses.
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Agreed that public transport needs to become much more efficient, frequent, and affordable. And, above all, safe.

But to my mind, in the longer term, public transport if the only way forward for busy city centres.
 
ChipChop said:
Using a street whose geography 'traps the pollution' as a yardstick for urban pollution levels sounds very much like a con. No surprise there then.
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Clearly.

The obvious solution is compulsory purchase of all residential properties in that street, and forced closure of all businesses. It's for the residents' and workers' own good, you see.

Much more sensible than using zero-exhaust-emissions vehicles, don't you agree?

Or, we could just leave them to suffocate in the toxic fumes, it's probably even cheaper, though the NHS might disagree with this cost analysis (yes yes I know, pollution is not a cause of death etc etc).
 
markjay said:
But to my mind, in the longer term, public transport if the only way forward for busy city centres.
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This is a statement from the 70’s?
 
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