Which S Class W221 should I buy?

[Darrell]

Same caveats apply to any “premium” car.
Correct
Would you like to know what it costs to replace a DSG on a golf or a4?
No

There’s no fundamental difference bar the suspension between a C class or S class.
Ok

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In order of your answers

Correct
No
Ok

 

[mat8n]

The only reason I don't have one is I get diesel via work.
I've had 3 lexus in the past, 2 LS's and I've had a w221, the lexus were 10 years older but still much better cars. 100% reliable and never had anything go wrong, the one time the rx went wrong lexus fixed it out of warrenty for a 10th of the price it should have been as a good will gesture.... As it's what they do... If you get over the image then they're the executive car to have.
They're all big numb barges so people who say the drive is no good have bought/driven the incorrect car for what they want.

 

[merc85]

With regards to a Buying a Mercedes FSH is a must and low previous ownership, Dont buy a cheap one there usually that for a reason. Forum car would also be a plus in my Book, along with one which has had the ATF changed at least once in it's life.

If you want reliability id be looking at a Lexus/Toyota , Not saying a Mb will be unreliable but be prepared for when something does go wrong.
Mercedes parts in general i find cheaper than BMW but electrical items such as ECU's and switch gear can be eye watering.

All the large v8's i've had can return 20+ mpg if driven sensibly. Diesel's quite abit more. I've not had a w221 but i am in the Motor trade "parts wise" and have been for over 25 years. Diesel's can also be costly when they go wrong much like the Bmw's but the 3ltr v6 cdi unit is a well proven lump.

 

[John]

I have a CL500 BlueEffiency and it does a typical combined of around 24mpg with fairly typical driving. I would only consider a diesel myself if I was doing more than 20k a year.

I would go for an S500 personally although at the plates you are looking at (pretty much facelift only), you can only get the LWB versions which are 20cm longer than my CL.

Mine has been very reliable so far touch wood. It runs on the underpinnings of a W221 and they are a massive leap forward in reliability over the W220.

I would ensure the vehicle has full main dealer or reputable independent servicing with accompanying invoices to prove it has been looked after.

This half you can do something about (and assuming you continue to look after it).

Not many cars are immune from big bills but timely maintenance should mitigate some of the risk.

The other half is luck!

As said, you only live once so if it is within your means, go for it!

 

[Deleted member 6183]

Uncle has.
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So that's a 'no' then.

 

[MrWriter]

Thanks for the comments and feedback so far buys. Please keep them coming.

 

[Quincross]

So I just bought one of these - the pre-facelift w221 though which was a conscious choice for many reasons. You can find my thread here: New project - what to do? Ideas please!

It took me a fair while to find a good one - so take your time as there are a lot of ex-corporate or ex-hire dogs out there. Pick a good one and they are brilliant, but still very expensive to maintain - and if something goes wrong then you'll be paying ££££££ especially the bluetec'd varients (hence why I bought a pre-facelift). Now I restore cars and if you have the kit, source proper OEM parts (not just aftermarket parts) and do the work yourself then things become far far cheaper.

Looking at the last owners invoices he spent £1200 last year on a service, a brake shoe change and an automatic oil change. Previous years seem to run higher, but they were done completely by dealers not merc indies and dealers.

As a comparison, I've just done the front brakes myself, which (because of a stuck piston) I doubt if I'd have seen change from £1000 if I'd had a dealer do it - as it was it cost me £170 and a day of my time. It'll cost me another £20 and a few hours work to get fully restored which I aim to do next week along with painting the calipers.

Hopefully that gives you an idea, but remember my car is a very well maintained example - get a poorly maintained one and you'll be into more cash. However, short of another £300 on tyres I expect that to be mostly it for the next year on repairs (unless the intermittent minor radar sensor fault turns out not to be a connection in which case I'll spend another £200 ish on a second hand part, not really necessary but I'm a stickler for perfectly performing cars!).

Anyway, what I'm saying is that as a comparison to what you already own, expect to pay out serious money if your not doing the work yourself.

Ok, that's the bad - the good is that this is without doubt (and except for my short stint with the Phantom) the nicest ride I have had. They're lovely so go for it if you can afford it.

If you're not doing city centres go with a diesel for economy - they'll do 200k miles before having serious issues. Go with a car that has all the options/toys. In general cars usually have most of their manufacturing defects 'outed' and sorted in the first 50 to 70K miles, so I tend to buy after that. Personally I wouldn't touch a bluetec, but many have and they are not as bad as they are made out to be.

Anyhoo - hope that helps,
QX

 

[MrWriter]

Guys, I really appreciate all your feedback, but I think, based one what other posters have said on here, that although I could pick up a W221 for £15,000, I'd need another £15,000 at the ready for when it goes wrong, and from what I've read everywhere they 'do' go wrong and are far from a Lexus when it comes to reliability. I won't go for a Lexus either as they are just to damn dull, made for the USA market and their boring sedan-shapes prove that. Funny thing, I did also consider an A Class (different car to S Class I know) but a few posters on here have said that most Mercs share the same parts, and knowing that the parts cost a ton I don't think I'll be entertaining any Merc now.

Back to the drawing board for what my next car is going to be.

 

[Quincross]

More like £5k but if that kind of cash troubles your bank account then the S is not for you.

Mercedes are no more or less troublesome than other makes and their parts are in general cheaper than Honda's for example. However, with the S you're looking at a 'top of the range' vehicle that's built for a certain market segment and with that comes loads of tech, loads of complexity and loads of cost. Without doubt if you can afford it, it is a truly fabulous car. Maybe not quite a Phantom but very near and at a fraction of the cost, and don't get me started about the price of Rolls parts.....

 

[mat8n]

The best quality cars that won't cost the earth are lexus and volvo.
Mercs are the best because they are mercs, but you pay for the privilege.
Audi and bmw are pretenders to the throne and personally I hate my BMW with a passion and never liked audis.

If you want a nice car for cheap money you'll have to compromise somewhere. The only real option I feel in your situation is a lexus as the costs have obviously scared you off Mercedes. You don't like the lexus but won't pay for a mercedes, so I'd be looking for a nice volvo....but there isn't really a suitable option there.... So like has been said and what I am now looking at is the phaeton. A phat passat, but if you don't like lexus I doubt you'd go for one of those either.

 

[merc85]

I think the quality of the plastic's in Volvo's just aren't upto it But they are very reliable, Seriously it's got be a Lexus from what they Op has said. BUT.... i reckon he'd get bored quickly. Nice car cheap money dare i say Honda Legend??

 

[MrWriter]

Volvo could be an option, don't know the range, but would investigate. Looked a little into Lexus and the iS could be an option, only because the LS nose-dives under breaking and under acceleration the front goes up like a boat.

I like the idea of the S Class, but considering how much money they cost they should be one of the most reliable cars in the world, but they seem to be far from it. Lexus can do it, so I can't quite understand why Mercedes-Benz can't, especially as they invented the car over 150 years ago and they have been making the S Class since 1972. Even Ford and Vauxhall come much higher than Mercedes in the customer owner surveys. I don't really understand how this could be. But, I would not have any hesitation buying a W221 if I knew they had Lexus reliability, but they don't, and I don't want a dull old Lexus.

I kind of agree that BMW and Audi are pretenders to the thrown. I actually like the Audi Q7 as a large comfortable car, but I've read that the air-suspention goes wrong a little too often and it cost £3,000 per wheel to fix, plus £3,000 for the air motor so you could end up with a bill of £15,000 just for suspension on one of those, same with the S Class I suppose. Audi TT is another car I love (different to S Class again, entirely) but would not buy one due to complex DSG auto box that 'always' goes wrong and there are three main parts to the box with the computer inside too that can go wrong, all costing about £3,000 each so if all three parts to the auto box go wrong Audi want £9,000 to sort it, even independent guys would want £6,000 to sort it.

It's a shame the Mondeo Titanium X has a 'Ford' badge on the front. Why don't Ford do what Toyota and Nissan did and have a 'Premium' devision that ups the quality of the plastic and fixture and fitting so they don't rattle and squeak and have bits of trim come away after 100k.

I guess the car I want doesn't exist

 

[Turbo1]

The best quality cars that won't cost the earth are lexus and volvo.
Mercs are the best because they are mercs, but you pay for the privilege.
Audi and bmw are pretenders to the throne and personally I hate my BMW with a passion and never liked audis.

If you want a nice car for cheap money you'll have to compromise somewhere. The only real option I feel in your situation is a lexus as the costs have obviously scared you off Mercedes. You don't like the lexus but won't pay for a mercedes, so I'd be looking for a nice volvo....but there isn't really a suitable option there.... So like has been said and what I am now looking at is the phaeton. A phat passat, but if you don't like lexus I doubt you'd go for one of those either.

I had an S80 once. That was a lovely car but in all honesty cost pretty much the same to run as the Mercedes, and it wasn’t quite as nice.

Then the gearbox started jerking, the fix. A £6000 replacement. Who made the gearbox, Aisin - the Toyota people. So the component that failed on that car hailed from the people who made the supposedly most reliable car in the world. Traul the Lexus forums and they’re not all 100% happy either.

The Volvo went down the auctions the next day. It’s the best thing to do with a car that’s in self destruct mode - offload it.

Nothing wrong with the BluTechs. Just add the ad blue fluid and drive the damned thing on a good run and it’s fine. It’s still the legendary OM642 engine under the hood.

Re Volvos they’re Transverse engines with automatic gearboxes - a hard combination to make reliable for many reasons. Shame really as they’re otherwise they’re a really decent good value alternative to a German car.

This is largely academic. The OP is talking himself out of it. This comes down to outlook and attitudes to risk and some folk see the worst case in every scenario and others take a punt and hope it’ll work out ok. I really don’t see a well kept 50k 5yr old 221 as a big risk but I don’t see £2000/yr in running/repair costs to a car as excessive.

All cars cost money to keep going. I’d rather spend £1800 keeping a 221 going than changing a clutch and flywheel on an Insignia for £1500.


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[mat8n]

Volvo could be an option, don't know the range, but would investigate. Looked a little into Lexus and the iS could be an option, only because the LS nose-dives under breaking and under acceleration the front goes up like a boat.

Audi TT is another car I love (different to S Class again, entirely) .

It's a shame the Mondeo Titanium X has a 'Ford' badge on the front. Why don't Ford do what Toyota and Nissan did and have a 'Premium' devision that ups the quality of the plastic and fixture and fitting so they don't rattle and squeak and have bits of trim come away after 100k.

I guess the car I want doesn't exist

You're all over the place with what you're looking for, the S class will drive just like an LS, a numb barge, I don't know how you think the S class will drive? The LS is a 300bhp+ V8 engined car, it has power, brakes and suspension to suit, it's a luxury car and handles as such, same as an S class.
The IS isn't an option in the same league at all! It's a competitor to the 3 series and A4, not comparable at all.
Then a TT and mondeo??
I understand how it feels when looking for a new car, but the way you are talking I think you need to stay away from the luxo barges and go for a sporty 5 series or A6 as you seem to be missing all the relevant points of owning a big premier saloon.

 

[Quincross]

This is largely academic. The OP is talking himself out of it....... I really don’t see a well kept 50k 5yr old 221 as a big risk but I don’t see £2000/yr in running/repair costs to a car as excessive.

That's pretty much bang on and agree. Looking at my vehicles history that's roughly what it has cost over the last 9 years, slightly less but about that.

 

[MrWriter]

I know it appears that I'm 'All over the place' with makes/models, but I'm not really. I do like large cars, I've had a Jag XJ, BMW 7 series and I am seriously considering the S Class, but if I get put off after more research with regard to running cost and expense of repairs I'll have to look at other options. I was looking at the S Class as it is the most comfortable thing this side of a Rolls Royce and if you're going to go for a large luxury car the S Class has got to be it. But if the S Class is out of the equation then I wouldn't look at Lexus as I just don't like them, no matter how reliable they are supposed to be. Which brings me to a different type of car altogether, Audi TT (but expensive gearbox and unreliable) and I mentioned the Mondeo as a 'tongue in cheek' joke. But what I said about the Mondeo being way more reliable than the German cars was true and I was just trying to make a point that if Ford can make a reliable car for a fraction of an S Class (different car I know) then why can't Mercedes. For a car that cost upwards of £80,000 they should be bullet proof and spot on. I wouldn't expect anything other than the usual wear and tear of pads/discs/plugs/filters etc to go wrong in a car like that.

So, I'm just back to the drawing board at trying to find a car that is reliable, good to drive, has a badge etc, but, as per my earlier post, I don't think this car exists. I think all cars are unreliable and cost a fortune to repair. I actually did a survey on just this a few months back by phoning several car makers and getting quotes for various parts. If you're interested you can read it here on my site, it's the third part 'German vs Ford' Nigel Cooper Author - Cars - The Naked Truth - December 2017

 

[Doodle]

But what I said about the Mondeo being way more reliable than the German cars was true and I was just trying to make a point that if Ford can make a reliable car for a fraction of an S Class (different car I know) then why can't Mercedes. For a car that cost upwards of £80,000 they should be bullet proof and spot on.

Because the Ford is comparatively stone age. The S-class has always been the bleeding edge of vehicle technology, and that comes at a price - both monetary and in terms of reliability.

 

[Quincross]

Because the Ford is comparatively stone age. The S-class has always been the bleeding edge of vehicle technology, and that comes at a price - both monetary and in terms of reliability.

And that's exactly it - for example my S has lingatronic voice control, radar for automatic braking and driving, computer controlled air suspension, and infrared night vision, TV, etc.etc.

How many ford 2008/9 cars had that?

It's basically a simple maths problem - the more complex and numerous the tech, the more things there are to go wrong, and therefore (no matter how good you are) the more likely it is that something will go wrong in any given time period.

Personally I think it's amazing that Mercedes make such high tech cars with new bleeding edge technologies that don't immediately go wrong on leaving the factory and driving in the real world. They must have a superb design and test regime to make this happen.

 

[horatio]

I know someone who drives S's for a hotel. They are run virtually 24/7 and are very reliable.

The thing is though, they are ferociously complex so once they get to the age where things start wearing out the bills aren't going to be pretty. You can't fix your 10 setting airmatic suspension on your driveway with some 20 coil springs from euro's. Same with every car like this.

 

[MrWriter]

I get the ‘Tech’ side of things, but people always make excuses for the car manufacturers when it comes to complex high-tech, when it really isn’t that complex at all. Example, I’m something of a Hi-Fi connoisseur and my Hi-Fi is really high-tech, some vintage from the 80’s and 90’s and some modern (like the wireless streaming Linn/Naim gear) and none of it has ever gone wrong in 30 years, ever.

My iMac computer, iPad, iPhone are all just as complex as any computer gubbings in a Benz, yet in the 20 years I’ve been using Apple equipment I have never had any piece of hardware go wrong and only rarely a software glitch which was sorted out in a few minutes at zero cost.

I also have a small recording studio with highly complex recording equipment: midi keyboard controllers, audio interfaces, raid array hard drive audio storage units, microphones, guitars, drum machines etc and I’ve never had any of it ever go wrong in 20 years of using tons of various pieces of equipment.

I’ve got a 46-inch Sony LCD TV that, in 15 years of ownership, hasn’t even developed a single dead pixel.

My Panasonic microwave is 15 years old, my washing machine and fridge are 10 years old and have never gone wrong.

We use this very same technology every single day and it is totally reliable, yet when it goes wrong in a car we just accept it for some reason. Imaging if your home appliances went wrong as often as the same tech in your car, you’d be taking it back to the store and complaining like hell, yet with a car we (well, not me) happily drive them into the ’stealership’ and pay handsomely for the privilege.

Yet, car manufacturers can’t put this same ‘Tech’ into a car without screwing it up - why?

I can't stand it when people bang on with the 'Cars are very high tech' old chestnut as I just don't buy it for one second as just about every other product maker outside the car industry manages to make reliable products no problem.

Ok, let the flaming begin…