Which S Class W221 should I buy?

[Deleted member 37751]

Even Ford and Vauxhall come much higher than Mercedes in the customer owner surveys. I don't really understand how this could be.

Simply down to perception; someone that buys an £80k will generally speak up if they’re not happy with something whereas someone who’s spent £15k on an Insignia just shrugs and gets on with it.

These “reliability” surveys are a misnomer in my opinion and you normally find the prestige brands at the bottom because of how much £ they cost to fix.

But look, the S-Class genuinely is the best in it’s sector without a doubt and, ultimately, £60k cars have £60k car running costs and to think otherwise is madness.

In my opinion a facelift W221 is a good buy and as long as you get it checked out beforehand then it should give you plenty of motoring pleasure.

 

[mat8n]

You wouldn't buy a 5 year old electrical appliance and expect it to work like a new one.
All the items you mention are designed to be non serviceable with a planned life length.
But if one component on the items above were to fail you would more than likely replace the item than the component if the appliance is over 3 years old.

Your issue isn't reliability, it's the cost of making it reliable... As in servicing and consumables.

There are no comparisons to electrical appliances and cars

 

[MrWriter]

SPX, When did the W221 facelift model come out and how can I identify it over non-facelift?

 

[Deleted member 37751]

SPX, When did the W221 facelift model come out and how can I identify it over non-facelift?

Late 2009.

Iirc the facelifts are S350 CDI, prefacelift 320 CDI.

Example of a Facelift: 2013 Mercedes-Benz S Class 3.0 S350 CDI BlueTEC L Limousine 7G-Tronic Plus | eBay

Pre-facelift:
2006 Mercedes-Benz S Class 3.0 S320 CDI 7G-Tronic 4dr | eBay

 

[Doodle]

Yet, car manufacturers can’t put this same ‘Tech’ into a car without screwing it up - why?

Because the use case for all of those items is very narrow and focused. All have to do a largely singular job in a static and relatively unhostile environment. Ask your microwave to integrate with your TV and your central heating while giving it a good smack every minute and exposing it to alternately freezing and warm conditions, then see how well it does.

 

[Quincross]

SPX, When did the W221 facelift model come out and how can I identify it over non-facelift?

Facelift has led running lights, rear lights are all glass (no body colour strips) and a more v shaped front. Otherwise it's basically the same shape and car. However, the engine is the same but more highly tuned to meet euro specs and is therefore (IMO) less reliable as they are trying to push it more to the edge of what it can do. They are truly great engines but push anything to the edge of its performance range and you'll decrease it's reliability.

On your 'my hifi works why can't a car' - I know you're being a bit tongue in cheek, but you're comparing apples with oranges. Leave your hifi outside in the wind, snow and rain; then shake it everyday, while regularly giving it a good thump with a hammer to simulate potholes; finally splash it with mud, dirt and wash it off with a hose...... And see how reliable it is after 5 years or if it needs parts replacing

 

[Turbo1]

I get the ‘Tech’ side of things, but people always make excuses for the car manufacturers when it comes to complex high-tech, when it really isn’t that complex at all. Example, I’m something of a Hi-Fi connoisseur and my Hi-Fi is really high-tech, some vintage from the 80’s and 90’s and some modern (like the wireless streaming Linn/Naim gear) and none of it has ever gone wrong in 30 years, ever.

My iMac computer, iPad, iPhone are all just as complex as any computer gubbings in a Benz, yet in the 20 years I’ve been using Apple equipment I have never had any piece of hardware go wrong and only rarely a software glitch which was sorted out in a few minutes at zero cost.

I also have a small recording studio with highly complex recording equipment: midi keyboard controllers, audio interfaces, raid array hard drive audio storage units, microphones, guitars, drum machines etc and I’ve never had any of it ever go wrong in 20 years of using tons of various pieces of equipment.

I’ve got a 46-inch Sony LCD TV that, in 15 years of ownership, hasn’t even developed a single dead pixel.

My Panasonic microwave is 15 years old, my washing machine and fridge are 10 years old and have never gone wrong.

We use this very same technology every single day and it is totally reliable, yet when it goes wrong in a car we just accept it for some reason. Imaging if your home appliances went wrong as often as the same tech in your car, you’d be taking it back to the store and complaining like hell, yet with a car we (well, not me) happily drive them into the ’stealership’ and pay handsomely for the privilege.

Yet, car manufacturers can’t put this same ‘Tech’ into a car without screwing it up - why?

I can't stand it when people bang on with the 'Cars are very high tech' old chestnut as I just don't buy it for one second as just about every other product maker outside the car industry manages to make reliable products no problem.

Ok, let the flaming begin…

No, you make a very valid point.

I suspect though the S class you’d end up with would be fine.

Cars, like any other equipment, can have inherent design flaws. Buy into one that’s a good reliable model (not for instance a 2litre bmw which are known for lunching chains) with a good proven record and you’ll be fine.

The 212 E class, 221 S class and 204 C class are just such cars if fitted with the tried and tested OM642 engine. Doesn’t matter hugely which one as they’re a well designed car with few fundamental design flaws - quite unlike an OM651 engined car.

Bar an oxygen sensor and fuel hose my nr 8yo E class hasn’t given a moments trouble.


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[Turbo1]

I know someone who drives S's for a hotel. They are run virtually 24/7 and are very reliable.

The thing is though, they are ferociously complex so once they get to the age where things start wearing out the bills aren't going to be pretty. You can't fix your 10 setting airmatic suspension on your driveway with some 20 coil springs from euro's. Same with every car like this.

Other than the suspension it’s no more complex than an E or C class - which to be fair are good reliable cars which if looked after are capable of covering many miles for many years without breaking down.


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[merc85]

Could always buy a Daewoo, They make excellent Microwaves lol

 

[John]

You do have to remember that there are many more people who post up disappointment generally than satisfaction.

For a long time now, every car I've bought I've researched into and a lot more than I ever used to prior to my current and previous Mercs.

Whatever I read made for sobering reading on the W211 E55K, W221 S500 and W216 CL500.

I can say that on the 54 plate E55K and 63 plate CL500, neither have experienced some of the issues you can experience with them which can be very costly. Some of which is down to luck but also as I mentioned before, timely maintenance plays a big part as does buying one with a good history.

In the case of the W221 I avoided pre-facelift W221s because I wanted petrol and was concerned about issues on the M272 and M273 engines.

I would have wanted a facelift S500 anyways so this would have avoided the issue but there are still potential issues which can affect both models.

It's the fear of the unknown.

I would set aside a slush fund and find a decent independent near to you (you are not too far from Mercland or MSLP).

Stick with your heart - the worst that can go wrong is it cost you money.

How pissed would you be if you bought that Mundano, whilst hankering after an S, to find it was a pit of money anyway.

 

[Bobby Dazzler]

If you survived an XJ and a 7-series, then you an S-class will be a walk in the park.

Seriously you live once, and if you can afford the maintenance and occasional repair without having to skip a mortgage payment then go for it.

Whatever you choose, enjoy your new car.

 

[MrWriter]

Today I test-drove a Lexus iS, just for the hell of it. I also had a look inside a Lexus LS, but didn't test-drive it. My overall feeling about Lexus (based on iS test drive and messing around in LS for a while) is that they are no Benz S Class, that's for sure. The iS was no better built than a Ford Focus in my opinion, well, perhaps a trifle, but that's about it. As for driving it, it was hard, unrefined, noisy above 60mph with too much wind and road noise coming in and the weird CVT auto-box is just strange, the way it just 'winds up' to speed with no response whatsoever. Nice driving position though, but apart from that, I didn't think much of it at all. The build quality (both iS and LS) were not what I would have expected from a so-called premium devision. I felt the 7 series was better bolted together than the Lexus LS and a 3 series, Audi A3 or even a (dare I say it) Ford Focus are better screwed together and drive way better than the Lexus iS.

I'm leaning toward S-Class. I'm going to phone some independent Merc service people and try and get a general opinion about S-Class vs 7 series, XJ and A8.

Yup, you only live once. Oh, and I'm fastidious with servicing and repairs, as soon as even a tiny thing goes wrong on any car I've owned, I get it sorted without hesitation. I like to know that my car is tip top and every little thing is working to perfection. I'd do the pads, discs, oil filter, air filter, oil change and stuff like that myself as I like to use decent parts and I know I'll do a decent job, I'd just leave difficult jobs to Merc independent specialists.

 

[MrWriter]

(you are not too far from Mercland or MSLP).

John, what is MSLP, Googled that, can't find anything?

 

[toolman1954]

If an S Class is frightening you, why not go test drive a well specced E Class and just see how that "floats your boat". Similar luxury cabin space and toys, remarkable fuel consumption from the diesels and overall quality experience.
There are many E Class owners on here, 211, 212 and 213 who would sing the praise of their choice of car.

Steve

 

[MrWriter]

If an S Class is frightening you, why not go test drive a well specced E Class and just see how that "floats your boat". Similar luxury cabin space and toys, remarkable fuel consumption from the diesels and overall quality experience.
There are many E Class owners on here, 211, 212 and 213 who would sing the praise of their choice of car.

Steve

I actually test-drove E Class and didn't like the fact that the steering wheel is offset to the left, I felt weird that it wan't centred. I am OCD for sure, but it was a good inch over to the left, if Merc had put the wheel any further to the left it would have been a left-hand drive car When I asked the salesman why this was he said they had to shift the steering column in some Mercs to shoehorn the 7-speed autoboxes in somehow.

 

[Bobby Dazzler]

John, what is MSLP, Googled that, can't find anything?

MSL Performance

 

[rockits]

I had a new shape Jag XJ for 2 years & it was faultless other than 2 services & a blocked fuel filter that hadn't been changed when it should causing a CEL & limp node on an odd occasion until it was replaced.

The XJ was great VFM & a cracking drive. I should have bought the Supersport though! I have a QP amongst others at the moment which is a kind of flawed genius kind of car. Like most Maserati's they aren't the best in class but their inadequacies actually form the basis of their attraction & character. QP's are ridiculous VFM at the moment.

I still find myself trying to get back into an AMG 55K powerplant again though as my times with the SL55 & S211 E55K were too short. My money would be going into something with the 55K powerplant in for sure.

 

[E53AMG]

I had a new shape Jag XJ for 2 years & it was faultless other than 2 services & a blocked fuel filter that hadn't been changed when it should causing a CEL & limp node on an odd occasion until it was replaced.

The XJ was great VFM & a cracking drive. I should have bought the Supersport though! I have a QP amongst others at the moment which is a kind of flawed genius kind of car. Like most Maserati's they aren't the best in class but their inadequacies actually form the basis of their attraction & character. QP's are ridiculous VFM at the moment.

I still find myself trying to get back into an AMG 55K powerplant again though as my times with the SL55 & S211 E55K were too short. My money would be going into something with the 55K powerplant in for sure.

I owned a 2010 Jaguar XF 3.0s for 2 years 2 years ago, one of my best rides yet, nothing went wrong apart from consumables and a battery change, very smooth and quick (at least I thought it was until I purchased my current SL500)! Might be worth a test drive?

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[MrWriter]

I owned a 2010 Jaguar XF 3.0s for 2 years 2 years ago, one of my best rides yet, nothing went wrong apart from consumables and a battery change, very smooth and quick (at least I thought it was until I purchased my current SL500)! Might be worth a test drive?

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Great idea, I actually test-drove an Jaguar XF about 3 years ago and thought it was great, actually bought BMW 3 series at the time instead as one came up really cheap. I just didn't know if a Jaguar XF would cost the same as an S Class in terms of maintenance and keeping on the road?

 

[rockits]

I found the XF especially the interior not a patch on the XJ's. The XJ is another level above inside. I bought a 3 year old twin turbo diesel 275 BHP zf auto. Couldn't fault it but fell out of love of the boom & bust power delivery of a twin turbo diesel. I'd have a 5.0 supercharged supersport for sure when prices drop a smidge more. The XF is no S class rival. The XJ is much closer.