Why so cheap??

[Bobby Dazzler]

MB dropped the EQC after only 4 years. There's a thread on here about one needing a new battery with just 1000 miles on the clock, and after 3 months Mercedes hadn't been able to provide one or even a date when one might be available.

I wouldn’t read too much into that being because it’s a hybrid though: I’ve been waiting since May for a fuel filter and a transmission mount for two different Mercedes models, still no date.

Last year I waited 3 months for fuel filter on a different Mercedes model. Before that 3 months on suspension strut. Before that 3 months for camshaft. The last few being pre-COVID.

An acquaintance has been waiting 3 months for a driveshaft.. Oarts supply is an issue across the whole industry but Mercedes seem to be struggling g much more than most.

 

[markjay]

Tesla model 3's are insurance group 48 -50. Evidently not simple to repair cars then.

Isn't it based primarily on engine power / performance? The Model 3 Dual Motor is rated at 491 bhp - how many cars with this type of performance can be found in lower insurance categories, I wonder?

 

[Bobby Dazzler]

So maybe its equivalent has risen in price. He didn’t have any issues with it though.
3 years of trouble free motoring.

Mercedes finance deals have changed quite dramatically due to the switch to direct sales, ie brand new sales are handled by MBUK albeit through the dealer network.

It’s come at a time that new car prices increased, interest rates have increased and residuals have softened - which is affecting other manufacturers too - although Mercedes seem to be playing harder ball than most.

 

[Bobby Dazzler]

Tesla model 3's are insurance group 48 -50. Evidently not simple to repair cars then.

Cars with very rapid acceleration tend to be. Look up ICE cars offering similar performance.

 

[Bobby Dazzler]

Excluding cars with a disclosed category rating and ignoring specifics of private/trade, location, trim, spec and registration date, then 2021 Tesla Model 3 with 35-40,000 miles are advertised for high teens or low twenties.

Said another way, that’s about the same as a BMW 3 series, which has traditionally been the car most popular with fleet drivers able to exercise a choice at the Model 3’s list price. Seems like the market regards the Tesla as well as an all time fleet hero.

@Darrell however considering what you get for the money, I would say that the Model 3 is a bit of a bargain if you buy a peach and not a lemon, a rule applicable to all second hand car purchases at a non-disposable price point.

 

[BTB 500]

I wouldn’t read too much into that being because it’s a hybrid though

The EQC is a BEV

I’ve been waiting since May for a fuel filter and a transmission mount for two different Mercedes models, still no date.

Last year I waited 3 months for fuel filter on a different Mercedes model. Before that 3 months on suspension strut. Before that 3 months for camshaft. The last few being pre-COVID.

An acquaintance has been waiting 3 months for a driveshaft.. Oarts supply is an issue across the whole industry but Mercedes seem to be struggling g much more than most.

Are these current/recent mass market models? Or older and/or more specialised/rare?

I know parts supply can be difficult - MB have been unable to provide some bits for my W639 Vito. But that is 17 years old, and was replaced by the W447 10 years ago.

I can see why things like battery packs for BEVs or hybrids would be a problem though - the high cost and physical size/weight would both make it hard to justify keeping them in stock anywhere. Add in the fact that they're usually specific to one particular model (quite possibly only made for a short time because of technology advances etc.), and it's not surprising that replacements can be hard to obtain.

 

[Darrell]

Excluding cars with a disclosed category rating and ignoring specifics of private/trade, location, trim, spec and registration date, then 2021 Tesla Model 3 with 35-40,000 miles are advertised for high teens or low twenties.

Said another way, that’s about the same as a BMW 3 series, which has traditionally been the car most popular with fleet drivers able to exercise a choice at the Model 3’s list price. Seems like the market regards the Tesla as well as an all time fleet hero.

@Darrell however considering what you get for the money, I would say that the Model 3 is a bit of a bargain if you buy a peach and not a lemon, a rule applicable to all second hand car purchases at a non-disposable price point.

In all honesty EV’s haven’t been on my radar but that can all change.

 

[MikeInWimbledon]

Tesla model 3's are insurance group 48 -50. Evidently not simple to repair cars then.

Acceleration is fun, but would want to run an already expensive Mercedes C63, or Tesla, with an insurance group of 48 ? Such a risk and waste of money.

Another excellent reason to own a Korean Hyundai or KIA, as their EV insurance groups are all in the Thirties,

or a Volkswagen ID3 or ID4, whose insurance groups are in the twenties.

And the lease cost of an ID3 is peanuts. Absolute peanuts.

 

[Darrell]

Acceleration is fun, but would want to run an already expensive Mercedes C63, or Tesla, with an insurance group of 48 ? Such a risk and waste of money.

Another excellent reason to own a Korean Hyundai or KIA, as their EV insurance groups are all in the Thirties,

or a Volkswagen ID3 or ID4, whose insurance groups are in the twenties.

And the lease cost of an ID3 is peanuts. Absolute peanuts.

What’s the deposit on an ID3? And don’t forget that peanuts to one person is caviar to another.

 

[markjay]

Acceleration is fun, but would want to run an already expensive Mercedes C63, or Tesla, with an insurance group of 48 ? Such a risk and waste of money.

Another excellent reason to own a Korean Hyundai or KIA, as their EV insurance groups are all in the Thirties,

or a Volkswagen ID3 or ID4, whose insurance groups are in the twenties.

And the lease cost of an ID3 is peanuts. Absolute peanuts.

It all depends on the specific variant - the RWD EV models tend to be less powerful and cheaper to insure.

Same as with ICE - the variants with the smaller engines and the lower performance tend to be cheaper to insure.

(Hang on - this is a motoring forum - surely everyone already knew this - oh, I see, someone has been s**t-stirring )

 

[Bobby Dazzler]

The EQC is a BEV

Of course it is. Let me fix the typo:

I wouldn’t read too much into that being because it’s a hybrid BEV though: I’ve been waiting since May for a fuel filterand a transmission mount for two different Mercedes models, still no date.

I still had this post in mind.

Mercedes in particular have had a bad record with hybrid batteries failing (almost unheard of with Toyota and Lexus, who have been selling them for ages). I think MB have dropped them completely now, and I'm pretty sure I read that they were no longer able to supply replacement batteries for some C Class hybrids.

 

[Bobby Dazzler]

Are these current/recent mass market models? Or older and/or more specialised/rare?

I know parts supply can be difficult - MB have been unable to provide some bits for my W639 Vito. But that is 17 years old, and was replaced by the W447 10 years ago.

All except one was current at the time of placing the order. Tye exception was a for a 451/2 generation Smart, which whilst no longer current are fairly common.

 

[MikeInWimbledon]

What’s the deposit on an ID3? And don’t forget that peanuts to one person is caviar to another.

For sure, I'm just pointing out that an ID3 costs very little compared to a Mercedes or Tesla.

I'm just a poor boy from a poor family, so I don't borrow money to use a car.....

But I'm told a PCP on an ID3 is £262 / month, half the cost of a much more expensive ICE C63

 

[ChipChop]

Cars with very rapid acceleration tend to be. Look up ICE cars offering similar performance.

A Tesla model 3 standard r-plus with sub 250 bhp and 0-60 just under 6 secs is group 48. Very rapid acceleration?

Indeed compared to my 190d

 

[Bobby Dazzler]

And don’t forget that peanuts to one person is caviar to another.

@Darrell touches upon an important point. Perspective is really important on such debates. Many - but not all - of the comments I read which anti-EV are not comparing like with like, for example list price, monthly payments, depreciation, complexity, etc.

For someone happy to buy and run a new compact executive car with a list price of say £50k, the list price, monthly payments, depreciation, and complexity will be similar whether choosing a Tesla Model 3, BMW 3-series or something similar.

Whereas for someone happy to buy and run 30+ year old naturally aspirated petrol or diesel worth say £2.5k, the list price, monthly payments, depreciation and complexity will be something of a shock on that Tesla Model 3.

But of course the same is true for the BMW 3-series but is rarely - or possibly even never - mentioned in any context. Strangely some people believe that they are being forced to buy a £50k Model 3 but not BMW 3 series.

Neither car is intended for them, and nobody is forcing them to buy either car - or any other - so quite why there is so much debate can be puzzling. Brand new expensive cars are really expensive and complicated, regardless of powertrain.

It’s an emotive topic. It gives us something to talk about since the 5G horror fizzled to nothing. I feel like car forums missed out for the 20 years before the EV debate - where were all the threads/posts highlighting the cost and complexity of S-Classes?

 

[Bobby Dazzler]

In all honesty EV’s haven’t been on my radar but that can all change.

They’re worth considering now as they’re no li her in the fringe.

It will change for most of us, it’s just a sliding scale of when. A bit like buying lawn mowers. My homies laughed at a mate and I talking briefly about lawn mowers on a night out when we were 21 years old, but 10 years later the whole group were talking for ages about lawn mowers. The only difference being that everyone in the group had a garden 10 years later, whereas only 2 of us did 10 years prior.

 

[Bobby Dazzler]

A Tesla model 3 standard r-plus with sub 250 bhp and 0-60 just under 6 secs is group 48. Very rapid acceleration?

Indeed compared to my 190d

I think you’re a closet EV fan. You know too much.

 

[Bobby Dazzler]

A Tesla model 3 standard r-plus with sub 250 bhp and 0-60 just under 6 secs is group 48. Very rapid acceleration?

Indeed compared to my 190d

Was there a reason you went for the model with an insurance group of 48 rather than the model which is an insurance group 36?

 

[MikeInWimbledon]

@Darrell touches upon an important point. Perspective is really important on such debates. Many - but not all - of the comments I read which anti-EV are not comparing like with like, for example list price, monthly payments, depreciation, complexity, etc.

For someone happy to buy and run a new compact executive car with a list price of say £50k, the list price, monthly payments, depreciation, and complexity will be similar whether choosing a Tesla Model 3, BMW 3-series or something similar.

Whereas for someone happy to buy and run 30+ year old naturally aspirated petrol or diesel worth say £2.5k, the list price, monthly payments, depreciation and complexity will be something of a shock on that Tesla Model 3.

But of course the same is true for the BMW 3-series but is rarely - or possibly even never - mentioned in any context. Strangely some people believe that they are being forced to buy a £50k Model 3 but not BMW 3 series.

Neither car is intended for them, and nobody is forcing them to buy either car - or any other - so quite why there is so much debate can be puzzling. Brand new expensive cars are really expensive and complicated, regardless of powertrain.

It’s an emotive topic. It gives us something to talk about since the 5G horror fizzled to nothing. I feel like car forums missed out for the 20 years before the EV debate - where were all the threads/posts highlighting the cost and complexity of S-Classes?

It's no coincidence that the people most sceptical of the new tech are folk who are running around in 20+ year old vehicles

Folks who were never going to own a new one, nor who are going to run an EV effectively for free because it's a barely taxed company purchase.

 

[SmartAmg]

I think you’re a closet EV fan. You know too much.

There's a lot like that, supposedly don't like them, but know a lot about them. And are always on about them.