Would you overtake here?

[Deleted member 65149]

I suspect that the lady driver who attempted to pull into the layby may have indicated; we don't know for certain, but statistically she probably didn't.

I would also say that it's a probability that she didn't check her mirrors again before pulling out towards the layby, or she would have seen the car overtaking and not continued with the move. An example of how wrong the instruction "Mirror, Signal, Manoever" is. It needs another "Mirror" immediately before Manoever.

I'm also surmising that the car following her was so close that the overtaking car had to attempt to pass them both at the same time, not being able to pull in between them.

So to my mind we have three drivers possibly to blame. The reports don't give the full story so we don't know.

Having said all that, I WOULD overtake as long as my car was powerful enough to do so well before any hazard, taking all the precautions others have mentioned earlier. If doing so in time meant going well over the speed limit I'd consider that the safer solution.

 

[markjay]

I just pulled into a parking bay on the opposite side of the road, and I realised that not looking in the mirror as I move over to the right feels totally unnatural.

 

[renault12ts]

I can't see why his record has any bearing on this case. The lady driver had not seen him, probably didn't indicate, nor look in her mirrors...he goes to jail. I'd have overtaken.

His sentance is because he is a little oik...but it aint just.

 

[190E 2.6]

I suspect that the lady driver who attempted to pull into the layby may have indicated; we don't know for certain, but statistically she probably didn't.

I would also say that it's a probability that she didn't check her mirrors again before pulling out towards the layby, or she would have seen the car overtaking and not continued with the move. An example of how wrong the instruction "Mirror, Signal, Manoever" is. It needs another "Mirror" immediately before Manoever.

I'm also surmising that the car following her was so close that the overtaking car had to attempt to pass them both at the same time, not being able to pull in between them.

So to my mind we have three drivers possibly to blame. The reports don't give the full story so we don't know.

Having said all that, I WOULD overtake as long as my car was powerful enough to do so well before any hazard, taking all the precautions others have mentioned earlier. If doing so in time meant going well over the speed limit I'd consider that the safer solution.

DITTO to that

 

[JohnEclass]

While driving every day we carry out instant risk assessments, is the road clear, is the gap big enough, do i have the BHP required to carry out a safe overtake, is there a junction coming up......if I cant be confident with any answer to these questions, its a no to the overtake. Chill and sit back.
But the variables are endless and tragically in this case, the worst possible outcome. I think if we are all honest, we have all made an overtake during our driving careers that was at best ill judged, thankfully with no more than the sound of a car horn and a miffed driver to deal with. So looking at the picture I'd say yes if I had sufficient BHP would look for the overtake, having carried out the mentioned review as to is it safe?

 

[This is Pete]

Looks like a nice road. My (being an old fart) would just hang back and enjoy the view at a more sedate pace and wait for a better piece of road or for the two cars in front to separate.

The idea of overtaking multiple cars unsettles me as I don't know whether the hind car will attempt an overtake, and I can't easily see the intentions of the car in front (or see the reason for it's apparent slowness).

I work on the basis that assumption has the potential to make an ass of you.

 

[kianok]

Mirror, signal, mirror manoeuvre may have prevented this.

I would also overtake there.

 

[Bellow]

He hadn't a chance of seeing the car let alone the indicator with the following car so close.
I have had this accident when the cars I was overtaking were so up each others ****s I didn't even know there was 'another' lead car. Doing all the right things, watching for any of the cars pulling out to overtake, watching for anything coming the other way at an illegal speed, and the lead car turns right right in front of me (into a pissy little turning that was apparently a 'junction'). One T-boned Audi and I have one leg shorter than the other.
The other cars played a part with their rubbish positioning and lack of awareness, but it was me that took the points in court.
Had I been exceeding 60mph I would have been properly raped in court. All you throttle jockeys that think more BHP is the answer to everything - be warned. All the extra speed will do is worsen the impact and the severity of the charge levelled against you should it go wrong. It doesn't matter how wrong the others are, they don't get charged - the one overtaking does.

 

[bpsorrel]

Just watched the BBC video in the link. Horrific. I'd have not thought of that happening. I wonder if she did signal...

I've seen this type of manouvre here in Russia where a car tries to pass several cars at once only for one of them to pull out and attempt to overtake also, causing the original overtaking car to swerve out almost ending up in the forest! People rarely signal intentions here...

Sad story. But, I would still have overtaken given the parameters as laid out by the OP at the start and hopefully I'd have spotted the car begin to move (or the signal...) in time to pull back.... but you never know.

 

[Paul/]

An example of how wrong the instruction "Mirror, Signal, Manoever" is. It needs another "Mirror" immediately before Manoever.

.

And sadly even then, you can imagine the inexperienced might rely just on the interior mirror. Harder to imagine how this would have happened if "thinking bike". And we can guess the outcome if it had been a bike.

I still vividly remember when, weeks after passing my test, overtaking a line of traffic in apparently safe circumstances, someone in the middle pulled out in to me (certainly no indicating before doing so)- forcing me on to the sandy verge. A scary way to learn a valuable lesson.

 

[seven]

I'm also surmising that the car following her was so close that the overtaking car had to attempt to pass them both at the same time, not being able to pull in between them.

This I find is all too prevalent now. If I am following a car/cars and have no desire to overtake I always leave enough gap for someone who wishes to pass me to utilise. I am constantly amazed at what some people think a 'safe' distance is.
Having said all that I too would overtake here given the circumstances.

 

[Mercy1]

I would definitely not try to overtake two vehicles on a road like this. The road is comparatively narrow, it bears left and right and a fast motorbike coming in the opposite direction could you leave you in serious sh*te.
The fact that there is a lake to the right and a wall further on - which might have my obituary on it (!) - plus the fact that you can't see much of the nearside verge, would be enough for me to hold back.
As many have said before on this Forum, to stay safe on roads today you need to create your own safety bubble around you which more or less means you should be able to see escape routes in every eventuality. Anyone can see there would be precious few escape routes overtaking if someone else does something unexpected in these circumstances. So best not to do it.
But I know there are plenty of people out there who would do it - and that's why accidents happen!!

 

[John]

This I find is all too prevalent now. If I am following a car/cars and have no desire to overtake I always leave enough gap for someone who wishes to pass me to utilise. I am constantly amazed at what some people think a 'safe' distance is.
Having said all that I too would overtake here given the circumstances.

Not too many considerate drivers around so you are quite rare in that respect...

Crash investigators can sometimes tell if the indicator was lit or not in a collision (assuming old school bulb). As the bulb illuminates, the filament gets hot and if a car is struck, the force of the collision can stretch the filament. If the filament wasn't illuminated, it wont - nor if the collision wasn't hard enough (one would assume it was).

I would imagine if the car in 'the middle' would have stated the indicator status in any case.

 

[Bellow]

This I find is all too prevalent now. If I am following a car/cars and have no desire to overtake I always leave enough gap for someone who wishes to pass me to utilise. I am constantly amazed at what some people think a 'safe' distance is.

There's worse. The gap being deliberately closed - severely narrowing options.
I see it routinely. The police can't deal with it - they once accused me of 'forcing a car to brake' by pulling in behind it!
There are some vindictive SOBs who cannot bear to be overtaken. They put everyones life in danger and are never punished.
The police need to drop the camera ****** and get out there and see what happens - or they'l be mopping up after accidents for evermore.

 

[kianok]

I think there should be a return of educational adverts for drivers like that and middle lane sitters, like the old "don't mix cross ply and radial tyres" and "don't use fog lights in the rain" ones from years ago.

 

[Tinck]

Is it still not the fact that we can overtake when safe to do so? Unfortunately for whatever reason it wasn't safe to, and this was the result. The burden of responsibility is with the driver of the car overtaking, bit like if you get rammed up the **** on the motorway, it's the trailing cars responsibility, insurance scammers have been making money from this for years.

 

[markjay]

When I was a young driver, I always overtook other cars whenever possible.

However I rarely overtake this days.

Perhaps I am more patient, or I simply no longer enjoy the Adrenalin rush...

 

[Tinck]

Having a Mercedes leads to a more sedate drive. Only use the power when you need it!

 

[renault12ts]

Having a Mercedes leads to a more sedate drive. Only use the power when you need it!

...like when you overtake.

 

[John]

When I was a young driver, I always overtook other cars whenever possible.

However I rarely overtake this days.

Perhaps I am more patient, or I simply no longer enjoy the Adrenalin rush...

Exactly the same for me as it happens. I once overtook 6 or 7 cars in a row on a single carriage two way A road, in an M3 on my way to the south coast for work, because I could, not because I needed to. Priorities certainly change as you get older... I wouldn't dream of doing that now.

The guy in question is 24 which is about the same as I was...