£111. Are younger People Worth More?

[MikeInWimbledon]

Have you all seen the (excellent underrated observant satirical imho) animated film: WALL-E. ?

 

[st13phil]

Good point. With the complexity of mental health issues distracting the police, why would they police a scooter speed limit?

So by accepting the failure of the agencies who should be dealing with the mental health issues that routinely distract the police, we also accept that the police don't enforce the law. So two failures for the price of one. Sheer genius.

 

[MikeInWimbledon]

So by accepting the failure of the agencies who should be dealing with the mental health issues that routinely distract the police, we also accept that the police don't enforce the law. So two failures for the price of one. Sheer genius.

Just pointing out that creating unenforceable virtue-signalling laws achieves nothing,

and that there are bigger fish to fry out there,

like young drivers who so routinely kill and maim that we've stopped noticing them.

 

[st13phil]

Just pointing out that creating unenforceable virtue-signalling laws achieves nothing

You're pushing on an open door with that one, but...

To extend that point, if an existing law achieves low natural compliance and is not going to be enforced why is it there? I suppose the trite answer is that some people will naturally comply with it absent enforcement, but that's not really a great advert and the lack of enforcement encourages those of a particular mindset to not bother complying with other laws too.

I quite understand that with finite resources, senior officers have to decide which offences to prioritise and which to devote less effort to. However, when those prioritisations conflict with the public's view of what is important and what isn't, support for the police - who require the consent of the public to operate - evaporates. Furthermore, if the police are routinely undertaking actions on behalf of other failing agencies, they have less time to deal with their priorities and the list of "crimes we don't have resource to investigate" continues to grow, and what confidence remains in them to execute their role diminishes further.

The example of scooter-riding food delivery oiks ignoring the laws of the road is a good case in point. Their "getting away with it" encourages others to do likewise, while a bit of intermittent but rigorous enforcement would see it stamped out to the betterment of everyone's lives.

 

[StMarks]

IMG

Fwiw I was thinking along the lines of the resultant evolution, illustrated by the lineage of the Spaceships' Captains over the years

 

[MikeInWimbledon]

Fwiw I was thinking along the lines of the resultant evolution, illustrated by the lineage of the Spaceships' Captains over the years

 

[ALFAitalia]

No problem with that at all , as long as you are not on the public highway/footpaths/BOAT/bridleway/RUPP and with permission from the land owner your actions are perfectly legal.

Exactly....so they are breaking the law whichever way that look at it....which is why they are pointless to buy unless you have acres of private land....and why, IMO, they should not be sold.

 

[Petrol Pete]

Exactly....so they are breaking the law whichever way that look at it....which is why they are pointless to buy unless you have acres of private land....and why, IMO, they should not be sold.

My point exactly ALFA . There is almost nowhere in the UK that these things can be ridden legally . Most of the private land owners I know own farmland , hardly the place for a low slung vehicle with tiny wheels and slick tyres.

 

[190]

Exactly....so they are breaking the law whichever way that look at it....which is why they are pointless to buy unless you have acres of private land....and why, IMO, they should not be sold.

Is there need for low cost city/urban transport - yes, but you need an infrastructure to accommodate it safely and that should have come first. In the absence of that infrastructure, the city trials should not have gone ahead, they are only encouraging the illegal use of privately owned scooters. People will be injured and some will die. If that isn't bad enough the trial will inevitably make a loss usually at the the tax payers expense. Every one of these schemes loses money, it's in their nature to lose money because we would have to live in a utopian society where people don't steal and chuck things in the canal for such a scheme to succeed. It would be nice if we did live in a utopian society but we don't.

For example 1,164 Boris bikes were lost in the nine months ended September 2021, a 24.6 per cent hike on the 934 lost in 2020.

Paris bike-share system, Vélib’, is reportedly set to significantly reduce its fleet due to rampant theft and vandalism, with 9,000 bikes reported mangled or missing in 2012 alone.

Liverpool City Bike began in 2014 with £2m from the Sustainable Transport Fund. There were 1,000 bikes and 150 docking stations Vandalism and theft saw the number of bikes fall to 500.

They could have spent those lost millions improving the infrastructure and getting people to buy their own bikes.

 

[ALFAitalia]

Is there need for low cost city/urban transport......

There is....they are called CARS! Some of those E scooters cost as much as a MOTed car from the school of bangernomics.

Ducati Scrambler Cross-E Electric Scooter

Ducati Scrambler Cross-E Electric Scooter The CROSS-E Scooter, branded Scrambler Ducati, mounts so-called “fat” anti-puncture tubeless tires (size 110/50-6.5”), which are also suitable for stretches of dirt or very uneven roads. The brushless motor provides a continuous power output of 500W and...

www.spatialonline.co.uk

 

[m80]

Is there need for low cost city/urban transport - yes, but you need an infrastructure to accommodate it safely and that should have come first. In the absence of that infrastructure, the city trials should not have gone ahead, they are only encouraging the illegal use of privately owned scooters. People will be injured and some will die. If that isn't bad enough the trial will inevitably make a loss usually at the the tax payers expense. Every one of these schemes loses money, it's in their nature to lose money because we would have to live in a utopian society where people don't steal and chuck things in the canal for such a scheme to succeed. It would be nice if we did live in a utopian society but we don't.

For example 1,164 Boris bikes were lost in the nine months ended September 2021, a 24.6 per cent hike on the 934 lost in 2020.

Paris bike-share system, Vélib’, is reportedly set to significantly reduce its fleet due to rampant theft and vandalism, with 9,000 bikes reported mangled or missing in 2012 alone.

Liverpool City Bike began in 2014 with £2m from the Sustainable Transport Fund. There were 1,000 bikes and 150 docking stations Vandalism and theft saw the number of bikes fall to 500.

They could have spent those lost millions improving the infrastructure and getting people to buy their own bikes.

To me this further demonstrates that our politicians have no respect for our money, because it will just keep coming.

But they will be praised and gain reward regardless.

There will be more idiotic schemes to come, cos it's fashionable.

 

[Petrol Pete]

Halfords sell these pieces of Chinese scrap . Not been in Halfords for a while , but the last time I went in right inside the door was a big display with an E-scooter on it. The back board informed the potential buyer of all the technical specs and price .

Buried in the corner was a small disclaimer about the (lack) of legal use of this piece of Shite they were peddling.

Should be made law for it to be the other way around , ie: 70% of any advertising space for these things should explain (in large font) where you are allowed to legally use them , pretty much nowhere in the UK, and let the buyer decide, as he or she (over the age of 21) signs a legal and binding document regarding it's use going forward.

Bit like us with car insurance , thats legal and binding and will bite you in the butt if you lie.

It would still be bad if these things were 100% designed and built in the UK using UK sourced materials .....but they are not.

 

[Wolfie1]

While the rest aren't looking, what brand do you use or recommend?

I was an early adopter of e-bikes (Haibike etc) for bridleway work but gave up because of their weight, switching back to traditional aluminium hybrids. I'd be interested to see a recommendation for life off-road / "beyond the city bike path"

I have the solar p1 pro and she has the solar p1 v2, both have all wheel drive, big nobbly tyres, regenerative braking, front and rear suspension, headlights, tail lights indicators and a horn, we tend to just keep them on the lowest speed setting as thats just enough And we always wear helmets. We find when out on them 99.9% of folks are really interested in them and comment how great they are but of course the remaining .1% just scowl at us and that is no exaggeration of the percentages, we have spoken to police whilst out on them too and they werent bothered either (we were pushing them at this point as we were in a village looking for souvenirs.) The issue is 1 from all walks of life there is the few that give things a bad name and they get demonised by going about like utter bellends not have an once of common sense and decorum.
Our 2 scooters cost £3000 and we genuinely love going out on them, its something we really enjoy doing together.

 

[ALFAitalia]

Whether you or the public that you have met don't mind is irrelevant....it's illegal and if you hit someone and seriously hurt them (easily done if they are old and step out in front of you no matter what speed you are doing) you might be selling your house to cover the compensation....literally. I don't mind driving a bit fast in the right circumstances......but I would not come on here trying to justify it......because I know it's ILLEGAL. Let's just hope your luck lasts. The copper not caring is part of the problem....if it's illegal it's their job to care.

 

[Wolfie1]

Whether you or the public that you have met don't mind is irrelevant....it's illegal and if you hit someone and seriously hurt them (easily done if they are old and step out in front of you no matter what speed you are doing) you might be selling your house to cover the compensation....literally. I don't mind driving a bit fast in the right circumstances......but I would not come on here trying to justify it......because I know it's ILLEGAL. Let's just hope your luck lasts. The copper not caring is part of the problem....if it's illegal it's their job to care.

Hence why we dont go whizzing past people its common sense and decency and neither of us want to injure anyone, i am not looking at the legality side of things in this conversation, am just talking about escooters in general, they are a brilliant mode of personal transport that would cut down urban journey times, pollution and congestion. I do really think once the government works out how they are going to create a revenue stream from them they will be deemed acceptable in their eyes

 

[MikeInWimbledon]

might be selling your house to cover the compensation....literally.

Nope. Can't think of any occasion where a cyclist, motorcyclist or driver has ever been forced to pay compensation on such a scale. If you know one, do give it.

(Even when a cyclist loses a limb in a collision with a two tonne insured car, the settlement doesn't even reach six figures, and we're nowhere near that territory here.)

It's an interesting point about enforcing laws. Shall we start by fining everyone found to be driving faster than the speed limit ? And imprisoning anyone harming anyone else in a case of driving without due care and attention?

We can rail against this all we like, but people are using these things globally, and they are reducing the pollution and environmental damage done by cars. Like EV's we may not like them, but they are part of our future.

 

[MikeInWimbledon]

I have the solar p1 pro and she has the solar p1 v2, both have all wheel drive, big nobbly tyres, regenerative braking, front and rear suspension, headlights, tail lights indicators and a horn, we tend to just keep them on the lowest speed setting as thats just enough And we always wear helmets. We find when out on them 99.9% of folks are really interested in them and comment how great they are but of course the remaining .1% just scowl at us and that is no exaggeration of the percentages, we have spoken to police whilst out on them too and they werent bothered either (we were pushing them at this point as we were in a village looking for souvenirs.) The issue is 1 from all walks of life there is the few that give things a bad name and they get demonised by going about like utter bellends not have an once of common sense and decorum.
Our 2 scooters cost £3000 and we genuinely love going out on them, its something we really enjoy doing together.

Excellent, many thanks. Made in the UK too.

I've see this level of scooter being used most days - on the road and outside the UK - with speeds of up to 30mph (and even potentially 50mph) very much a motorbike / fast hybrid e-bike alternative. Always by appropriately dressed riders, with all the gear (and a good idea)

70lbs ! And I gave up riding e-bikes because I thought 45lbs made them too much of a hassle for the extra range thy gave.

Solar P1 Pro Review: Electric Scooter That’s Fast And Heavy

Cat firmly placed within the pigeons, but like Harleys, Ducati's, AMG's and even racing bicycles, it's not about the power, it's how it's actually used.

 

[ChrisEdu]

Considering how bad the roads are, for bikes and cars alike with much larger wheels, I shudder to think how many accidents would result in a plethora of scooter riders hitting potholes at speed.

 

[m80]

The fact that these things cut down urban journey times means they are going faster than walking speed. With that comes an increase in collision events.
Children and dogs tend to be erratic, there is a conflict or many just waiting.
It soon will be considered by scooters that dogs and children should be constrained.

How can they reduce congestion if there are more people using them in an already congested environment?
That is similar to saying that roads should be improved so that cars can go faster.

So they are illegal, they are coming at me with arrogance (the very fact they are sharing my space illegally makes that true). Using the old woman who screamed at the old woman on her push bike scenario, if I react in defence (of self or dog) and they come a cropper I am looking at paying for a legal defence, that may well fail.

The whole thing is ambiguous.
There is a lack of infrastructure and they are deemed by most to be enhanced pedestrian footpath transport.
There are no effective controls on sale or use, or safe condition (both maintenance and speed enhancement).

Grant Shapps should be held to account for the introduction of Finnish machines in London, and for many reasons.
This deserves an open debate. Imho.

 

[ALFAitalia]

Nope. Can't think of any occasion where a cyclist, motorcyclist or driver has ever been forced to pay compensation on such a scale. If you know one, do give it.

(Even when a cyclist loses a limb in a collision with a two tonne insured car, the settlement doesn't even reach six figures, and we're nowhere near that territory here.)

It's an interesting point about enforcing laws. Shall we start by fining everyone found to be driving faster than the speed limit ? And imprisoning anyone harming anyone else in a case of driving without due care and attention?

We can rail against this all we like, but people are using these things globally, and they are reducing the pollution and environmental damage done by cars. Like EV's we may not like them, but they are part of our future.

I dont but the point is that cyclists aside the other have insurance so wont pay anything themselves When A lady pulled out in front of my motorcycle and broke my arm in 4 places the compensation was 6 figures.....she would not have enjoyed that if she was uninsured or had cause the accident on her E scooter rather than her car...which could easily happen!!!