129 front sway bar on 124

[nick.ged]

been watching the piston heads vids of speed runs,and am starting to get itchy feet.

my car has new shocks and springs, but old worn bushes and 320 sway bars, so it is a bit twitchy at speed, coupled with the 3.07 diff, top speed is only around 140ish and quite scary.

i need to upgrade, so

i have just ordered a second hand 129 500sl front sway bar. it cost 25 quid.

i have been reliably informed it will fit on a 124, and a small adjustment to the two front mounting brackets will make it sit exactly as the standard 124 bar does.

this is to be stage one of my front suspension overhaul, which will end in the new year with new poly bushes for the inner control arms, with new adjuster bolts, new ball joints and adjustable strut tower tops, along with poly bushes for the roll bar.

the rear will get new poly bushes for the control arms, a full adjustable camber kit, poly bushed rear sway bar from either an e500 18mm or the 19mm limo rear bar.
i have been reliably informed that the 210 e55 bar, which is bigger still, will fit, and am making enquirers.

this is open to change because one japan tuning firm offers a 22mm rear bar for the 500e to match a 32mm front so i may look into other options.

finally poly bushes for the front of the rear sub frame and a longer diff.

i will then be ready to attend the speed meetings, and test the beast out.
i want 170 i want 170...

background for my choices;

the standard sl 500 bar measures 30.5mm in diameter, which just so happens to be almost exactly the same as the amg bar fitted to the e60, which is 30.4; i dont think this is a coincidence.

so the 25 quid sl bar should be almost the same as fitting the e60 front bar, and not far behind the renntech sway bar, which is 32.05mm dia but costs $$$$$$$$$$$$$

the limo bar, which is the preferred upgrade for the 124 is 28.5mm in dia and costs a lot more, (200 ish?)

i priced up the e500 front bar yesterday, which is 28mm and 192 plus vat.

 

[dinoy]

probablu already transplanted into w124 convertible as with many parts in the interior etc i found out came from w129!!

 

[d w124]

Interesting,let me know how you get on please Nick

 

[nick.ged]

will do dash.

as for the 129, it was designed from the 124, so technically all the 124 bits are on the 129. just that the 129 sway bars were made bigger.

 

[Niks]

Nick, im also looking to replace the front and rear sway bars, and change all the bushes on the rear. Let me know how you get on too!

 

[bolide]

I have a feeling that the bigger antiroll bar won't do quite what you want

Having had an E39 for a while I realise that high-speed body control on the W124 is not good. I think it's down to compliance in the tyre sidewalls, bushes & soft suspension rather than something that can be controlled by an ARB. More than that, I think there are aerodynamic reasons for the car wandering

It'd be interesting to hear some perspective from people who have driven W124s a lot at high speeds. I owned a 250TD for ten years so my personal Vmax never went above about 90...

Nick Froome

 

[ray_hennig]

It'd be interesting to hear some perspective from people who have driven W124s a lot at high speeds.

I had a 1985 300E in the late 80s and it was stable, stable, stable. My current 300CE-24 Sportline, theoretically, should be more stable. It isn't and never has been.

Why?

I think it's because of ageing suspension parts. Not the springs and dampers but the flexible decoupling parts that many people here recommend replacing. I have also noted that mine is very stable when taking a sweeping curve at 120 mph. It looses this sure-footedness as soon as it's back on a straight line. My theory is that the flexible parts are all 'tensed up' in the curve. That's what it feels like.

My plan is to get all wearing parts replaced as part of a complete suspension revamp. This will be when funds permit.

Interesting subject.

RayH

 

[VB123]

I do 240kms a day @ 160kph and mine is very stable cutting in and out of crazy traffic. It is standard, only with lower profile tyres.

 

[dinoy]

i till what i have found out on the w124 i know most will not like it, but using clk alloys on them provide a much better ride that 15 inch 8 whole, in both smoothness of the ride and handling.

but i get people whipping it off as non original, but it provide better handling at both high speed and around pot holes

i woundered if people have had similar experience

 

[dinoy]

will do dash.

as for the 129, it was designed from the 124, so technically all the 124 bits are on the 129. just that the 129 sway bars were made bigger.

what i noticed on the convertible at least mercedes reused most of the w129 parts for the roof and other parts rather than make special parts for that model. i would say w124 and w129 crossed over each other, and certainly they spent more money developing technolody for the roll bar that they never recovered costs for from selling the w129.

 

[aka$h]

On the E36 I recently sold, I had fitted Brabus shock absorbers with H&R springs. Around town, when driving quickly around corners the car never did lift and the body roll was much less than expected.
I took the car to Koln and was doing speeds in excess of 140mph, stability wasnt an issue. Although I did suddenly remember its a 15 year old car and I should really back off. The car is restricted to 155mph, and Ive got no doubt it would reach it, but given the age of the car I bottled it. That and the autopbahn is never empty during the day, and at night the w124 lights look like candles at that speed.

 

[bolide]

II think it's because of ageing suspension parts. Not the springs and dampers but the flexible decoupling parts that many people here recommend replacing. I have also noted that mine is very stable when taking a sweeping curve at 120 mph. It looses this sure-footedness as soon as it's back on a straight line. My theory is that the flexible parts are all 'tensed up' in the curve. That's what it feels like

I'd go along with that 100%

It'd be interesting to drive a new W124

Nick Froome

 

[nick.ged]

nick, all your points are correct, and ray hennings points ring true also.

if you re read my posts, you will see that i indicate i am to replace all the rubber mounts and bushes, and ball joints. and i will add, this will include the gearbox mount upgrade and uprated engine mounts, wich are needed for the output of my engine.

the bushes i am to use are poly bushes that are approx 30% stiffer than std.

this will be the big improving factor, the roll bars are just what i believe to be a better idea than spending 250 on a limo bar, which most others have fitted to 'improve' there handling, and a similar amount on a rear bar.

my bar has cost 25 quid, and I'm sure the second hand rear e55 one will be just as cheep.

my car is also very stable in high speed manovers, and just feels a bit 'vague' when driving straight, and the thought of maxing it down a runway with 21 year old bushes in the critical suspention parts just scares me slightly.

the vaugeness has improved somewhat since i fitted a new steering damper on the mot last year.

however, i can feel the back end flexing, under acceleration which i have discovered is movement in the front bushes of the rear sub frame.

i also have IMHO a better wheel package than any other 124 on the road now or ever before, with the extremely light forged wheels i am using, and tire wall flex is not an issue.

i have already fitted new bilstein shocks and amg springs, approx 5000 miles ago, so i will basically have all new chassis components, with almost exact spec e60 roll bars...

i am sure it will be everything i expect and more, because It will i think, drive like a new 124 that nick wonders about.

also, the main reason for the post was to inform that the 129 bar will fit, and is as the e60, the rest was just background to explain my reasons.

cheers all, and stay safe on the roads this week in the ice and snow.

 

[bolide]

If it's vague in a straight line you might want to look at the toe-in front & rear and maybe deviate a bit from the standard spec

It's a complex topic but I know race & rally cars tend to run non-standard toe-in to achieve the stability (or lack thereof) that they require

The kinematics of the standard suspension are remarkably well-honed for a car of that era but modern cars are better in some areas. As you've modified yours quite a bit I wouldn't assume that the factory settings will be ideal

Nick Froome

 

[nick.ged]

yes, settings will be important, i will be fitting rear camber adjusters, and get a full alignment done with the new bushes fitted, i also think that modifyed settings may be best, regards toe ect.

 

[nick.ged]

YouTube - fitting mercedes 211 e55 kompressor rear roll bar on a mercedes 124 coupe

 

[RBYCC]

I'd go along with that 100%

It'd be interesting to drive a new W124

Nick Froome

Most experiences are from those that never drove a new 124..

I took delivery of my 300CE new in May of 1988..
It was and still is ( with 66K miles and many upgrades ) an incredibly stable vehicle at 100+ mph speeds..

Those that state otherwise are saying so only because of deficiencies in their aging and not maintained suspensions.

 

[Sp!ke]

My old W124 Coupe was in the family from new so I drove it very early on in its life as well as much much later on with much higher mileage.

I also saw an indicated 135mph in that car a few times and anything over about 120mph and the car felt very light on steering and didn't inspire confidence at all. Under 120mph it was fine.

From recollection the car was as bad when new as it was when it was 20 years old.

 

[nick.ged]

Those that state otherwise are saying so only because of deficiencies in their aging and not maintained suspensions.

and the fact they have more power than you...

 

[jaymanek]

Only the W126 was built to do those sorts of speeds in the 80's....