2001 Sprinter - Intermittent Non-Starter & Dies whilst driving

[carlosgonzalez]

My first time here, so hello! ... and thanks (especially as its a long post!) in advance to anyone that can help.

I have a 2001 Sprinter 311cdi, which I have converted to a camper.

For over 2 years there has been an intermittent fault which started as follows:

Whilst in a queu one wet day it just died whilst pulling off, lost all power (including power steering) and would not restart. Called the AA and they found that there was air in the fuel, the pipe (with the black corrogated covering) at the front of the fuel filter had bubbles.

The AA man got her going with Easy Start, and recommended replacing the fuel filter, even though it was only a few months (about 5000 miles around europe) old as it had just been serviced - so not an old filter. This seemed to solve the issue for a while.

Another 6 months later it would not get going after filling up, got her going using Easy Start.

Soon after it developed into a non-starter, even when AA used Easy Start it died pulling off and just wouldn't get going even with easy start. They towed it to a Diesel injector specialist who replaced the fuel filter with an official Merc one as they said the O-rings on some aftermarket filters aren't as chunky and can let in moister.

This again fixed the issue for about 6 months. Then whilst driving on a duel carriage-way we tried to overtake a car but I had to lift off quickly and then re-apply throttle - same thing as the initial hick-up she just died and would not tick over, I had to roll to the side and give it Easy Start.

No issues after this for another few months.. But again it developed into a non-starter (especially on cold days) without the engine crack.

We asked our brother's mechanic to have a look and he saw that the glow plug light was not going out after turning the key (not till tick over). So he replaced one of the glow plugs - the rest were seized up and did not want to risk snapping them.

It started fist time and following times with the glow plug light going out instantly (only to re-appear for about 20 seconds after started). However on her first journey out (started first time) we stopped after about an hour of driving at service station, same old thing it would not tick over - easy start got her going... This repeated itself again the same day when we stopped. Easy start and off we go, but it also died as we were driving.

Got her going with easy start again. When we got to our final destination I had a moment of intuition to apply some throttle as I turned the ignition off. Next day it started first time.

I've been able to repeat this so that if there is throttle whilst ignition is turned off then it will start first time, if I don't then it won't start.

However whilst driving yesterday it died - again I had to overtake to avoid a lorry that just pulled out - maybe I was 5th when should have been in 4th.. not fun on a v busy duel carriage-way!

Phew, a long history of mis-behaviour! So any advice and expertise would be very very welcome.

 

[whitenemesis]

Cutting out whilst driving, pulling away leaking 'O' rings on the fuel lines?

Warm starting problems often the CPS failing, quite common

 

[carlosgonzalez]

its ok warm/cold starting as long as there is throttle whilst turning ignition off - seems like there is less of a juddering from engine as it shuts down.

What is the CPS please?

Thanks.

 

[whitenemesis]

Crankshaft position sensor

https://www.yourmechanic.com/article/symptoms-of-a-bad-or-failing-crankshaft-position-sensor

Have you had the car on STAR diagnosis to check for error codes?

 

[carlosgonzalez]

not had it on diagnostics - was avoiding expensive merc garages... is STAR available to non merc garages?

 

[whitenemesis]

It is, any good mercedes indie garage should have one.

 

[Mercland]

Definitely a fuel issue it seems. I dont know vans that well but around 2001 I think the vans still had the plastic fuel pipes.
They will need replacing as a set for a starting point. Changing the fuel filter for a genuine MB part is recommended.

If that doesnt solve it then I think you will need to spend some money on some proper in depth diagnostics.
Either a Mercedes or Diesel specialist should be able to get to the bottom of it.

Our Sprinter recovery truck had the clear plastic pipes replaced twice within 12,000 miles and we changed the fuel filter every service..

 

[carlosgonzalez]

thanks.. the fuel pipe that has the black covering which we could see the air bubbles was replaced along with the fuel filter the first instance..

Anyone got any ideas why it starts fine after throttle is applied when turning ignition off... and doesn't start if no throttle is applied when turning off? This seems like a key factor.

Cheers

 

[whitenemesis]

It leaves an excess of fuel in the lines at shutdown?

Just because the fuel lines and filter were replaced doesn't mean they are not at fault now.

 

[Tuercas viejas]

This is a fairly common problem on that FIE design and the fuel management system .

Air entrained in the fuel is the most likely culprit and remember this FIE system in uses a mechanical lift pump on the head. Hence the suction side of the pump has to be a perfect seal..
As mentioned the plastic pipes have to have perfect sealing on the O rings for them to seal.

Often overlooked is the water drain screwed in bung at the bottom of the fuel filter. It leaks and causes extended crank start times or a no start condition when cold.
The same applies to the base of the filter at the "water in fuel" sensor if cracked, the sealing o ring is defective, the unit is cocked slightly in the twist and turn blade fitting. Has it got a small leak no matter how small ?

Then as a consequence the fuel filter itself ! What do you have on the rig ? Is it a cheap aftermarket unit or is it simply plugged up/ partially restricted.I only use a genuine MB filter for this!.

Often overlooked is the check valve block & sealing O ring located on the top of the filter where the return lines are connected. Inside there is a ball and spring check valve. This allows the filter to vent back to the tank. Basically it gets internally misplaced and excessive fuel returns to the tank. Is it damaged misplaced?

Action to fix!
Since the system is akin to a big truck diesel system of the 80's era truck like a Leyland , /Albion /Atkinson/ Foden /ERF design--only miniaturized, you have to think like a big truck mechanic ! Besides "US" big truck mechanics are far more clever critical thinkers than poofer car "tecks" types in their designer romper suits and cotton bootees!

If you have and are absolutely sure the fuel filter and associated pipework are sorted and in good condition. Then it must be primed up to work hence all the lines must be full of fuel. First fill the fuel filter so that is brimmed, We in the shop go further, by opening the injector pipe at the HP pump to rail, apply limited shop air pressure to the fuel tank through the fill neck until fuel pees out of the pipe..
Reconnect and then crank. It should fire right up.
Now observe the pipework for entrained air!
The odd bubble is OK when the engine is revved but big gobs of air will mean either a poor crank/start times or cutting out problem.

At that stage you could have problems in the upstream fuel line like a perished suction hose at the fuel tank pick up stand pipe, its strainer . or in fact the sender unit mounted in the tank .
Again BIG truck diagnosis--The dolly tank!
Get 5 (20 litres) gallons of fuel in container, stick a 3/8 (10mm) hose in it as a siphon tube and connect it directly to the fuel filter suction elbow .
Again prime up and go for a start.

If the thing runs with no air the lines the the issue is upstream as I have explained. So you have to investigate further .

It is pertinent to mention the lift pump on the head!
Not a pattern failure item, but the seal on the drive shaft might be bad and the pump is sucking air in from the crankcase--Don't overlook that!
I have lost count of how may times I have done this to recover/repair big artic trucks off the A40 & the Cotswolds in me yunger yurs )

Now as a tail piece !
Yes you may be having an engine management issue. (mustn't overlook that!) For info the cam sensor mounted on the valve cover sets the injection period and spill timing point . It synchronizes itself with the crank sensor.

Any good scanner with an MB program should be able to see the fault codes hall effect wave forms for both sensors in data to "see" what's going !

Pattern failures I see are deteriorated cam sensor connector plug (partially detached, the three #18 wires going back to the PCM are deteriorated, have high resistances (corrosion) and are corrupted. All of these will,cause poor starting and cutting out!

There are other reasons for cutting out like excessive internal leakage at the injectors under full throttle loads but I can get to that with some more help if you have done the simple things first but to no avail!
All the best!
Tuercas Viejas

 

[E280Tim]

I had a similar problem on my 2004 316 sprinter. It used to just die for no reason usually on the M25... It turned out to be the brake light switch