I moved house in the summer - now at the top of a fairly steep cul-de-sac with an even steeper drive.
The council don't grit the road, only provide sand bins at 100yds intervals.
On the first day of snow - approx 2" we got stuck half way up our drive. Later in the week I helped neighbours who got stuck on the road.
I am currently looking into options for a 4 wheel drive for the next car. There don't seem to be many options available for a "luxury saloon/estate" (Audi A6, VW Passat, Skoda Octavia & Subaru Legacy).
I don't realy want a big off road vehicle with the attached high fuel bills.
I would definately consider 4Matic.
The council don't grit the road, only provide sand bins at 100yds intervals.
On the first day of snow - approx 2" we got stuck half way up our drive. Later in the week I helped neighbours who got stuck on the road.
I am currently looking into options for a 4 wheel drive for the next car. There don't seem to be many options available for a "luxury saloon/estate" (Audi A6, VW Passat, Skoda Octavia & Subaru Legacy).
I don't realy want a big off road vehicle with the attached high fuel bills.
I would definately consider 4Matic.
OP
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grober
MB Master
Yet another mini 4x4
Yet another mini 4x4. See the article here. http://www.telegraph.co.uk/core/Con...?xml=/motoring/2005/12/10/mfiat10.xml&site=14
Tell me I'm wrong but from some angles doesn't the Fiat Sedici look like a Mercedes ML thats been left in the tumble drier too long?
I am going to write to MB to ask why they cant engineer a RHD 4matic saloon/estate for the considerable market that undoubtedly exists for the technology.
Yet another mini 4x4. See the article here. http://www.telegraph.co.uk/core/Con...?xml=/motoring/2005/12/10/mfiat10.xml&site=14
Tell me I'm wrong but from some angles doesn't the Fiat Sedici look like a Mercedes ML thats been left in the tumble drier too long?
I am going to write to MB to ask why they cant engineer a RHD 4matic saloon/estate for the considerable market that undoubtedly exists for the technology.
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grober
MB Master
Audi's Quattro gearbox
For the dedicated folks following this discussion here's a nice cutaway of the original quattro transmission. I think this is from the Audi brochure at the time. The key design element is the hollow shaft which transmits drive and acts as the central differential crown wheel, while the inner shaft transmits drive from the forward facing differential pinion to the front diff. This is still the basis for the present audi "true" quattro system save that the centre differential is of the "Torsen" variety. The guy who designed this must have made Audi billions, since it was the quattros' rally success that revived the marque's fortunes. Such was the ingenuity of the first quattro engineering team that in order to design a rear suspension / drive unit for the first quattro models they just reversed the front suspension and stuck it on the back!
For the dedicated folks following this discussion here's a nice cutaway of the original quattro transmission. I think this is from the Audi brochure at the time. The key design element is the hollow shaft which transmits drive and acts as the central differential crown wheel, while the inner shaft transmits drive from the forward facing differential pinion to the front diff. This is still the basis for the present audi "true" quattro system save that the centre differential is of the "Torsen" variety. The guy who designed this must have made Audi billions, since it was the quattros' rally success that revived the marque's fortunes. Such was the ingenuity of the first quattro engineering team that in order to design a rear suspension / drive unit for the first quattro models they just reversed the front suspension and stuck it on the back!
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BTW, did you see the bit in this month's Top Gear magazine saying they thought 4Matic should be available on the E and S class in the UK?
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grober
MB Master
Nope havn't seen that, but it would seem we are not the only ones then! 
prprandall51
MB Enthusiast
Dieselman said:
But it says in the literature that for any failure in the SBC system the braking reverts to fully assisted front brakes. Surely that must include pump failure.
There is no way of stopping a modern, heavy car without assistance of some form. If there was any situation whereby cars were reverting to unassisted braking then there would be carnage on the roads. I am sure MB would recall the lot and give us all refunds....
Philip
prprandall51 said:
Not exactly modern (!), but I once had the engine seize on a 3 litre Granada Ghia ("Sweeny car"
) as I approached a dual-carriageway roundabout at about 70mph 
I can confirm that steering and stopping without any power assistance was quite a challenge!
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grober
MB Master
C class 4matics made in Germany!
C class 4matic initial technical specification
Power system consisting of a V6 engine, automatic transmission and transfer case
The centerpiece of 4MATIC is a single-stage transfer case with an open centre differential which compensates for any differences in the front and rear axle speeds. This is directly linked to the automatic transmission and forms a complete drive unit in conjunction with the V6 engine, torque converter and front axle gear. The front axle gear is designed as a so-called "hang-on unit", which means that it "hangs" on the newly designed engine sump to save space. A universal joint prop-shaft ensures a good connection between the transfer case and the front axle gear. The front axle drive is via noise-reduced spur gears which also act as an oil pump and provide the lubricant supply to the transfer case. The rear axle gear is identical to that used in the rear-wheel drive models and is connected to the drive unit via a shortened prop-shaft.
Newly developed front suspension with McPherson struts
The four-wheel drive system made it necessary to design a new front suspension. Instead of the three-link system the 4MATIC models feature a modified McPherson strut suspension with redesigned lower control arms of forged steel and forged steering knuckles. The Mercedes engineers have raised the front suspension by ten millimeters to give the 4MATIC variants greater ground clearance. The precise rack-and-pinion steering remains broadly unchanged, though the steering gear has been moved slightly to the rear with resulting modifications to the shape and length of the track rods. The rear axle of the new C-Class 4MATIC models features the patented multi-link independent suspension, which is still unrivalled in terms of handling safety, dynamic response and comfort.
Body-shell modified for 4MATIC
The C 240 4MATIC and C 320 4MATIC are produced at the Mercedes-Benz plant in Bremen. Here the four-wheel drive variants already go their own way during body-shell production, as the drive system makes certain modifications to the body structure necessary. Examples:
•To create space for the front drive shafts the front side members are cut away and fitted with additional reinforcing sections at the openings.
•The McPherson strut consoles are reinforced and adapted to the special 4MATIC struts.
•The integral support frame for the engine, transmission and front axle is a new development which has likewise been tailor-made for the special features of four-wheel drive. Compared with the corresponding component in the models with rear-wheel drive, modifications are necessary owing amongst other things to the altered position of the control arms, the torsion bar stabiliser and steering, as well as the additional space required for the front axle drive shafts. The integral support frame is of sheet steel in the 4MATIC models.
•The rear engine mounting features an additional connecting plate between the transmission tunnel and the main floor.
Powerful six-cylinder engines with 170 and 218 hp
Two high-torque six-cylinder engines guarantee effortless performance and dynamic driving enjoyment in the new C-Class 4MATIC models. There is a choice between the 2.6-litre V6 engine in the C 240 with 125 kW/170 hp and a maximum torque of 240 Newton meters , and the 3.2-litre power unit in the C 320 which has an output of 160 kW/218 hp and develops a torque of 310 Newton meters. In the 4MATIC variants of the C-Class Mercedes-Benz combines both engines with the electronically controlled, five-speed automatic transmission as standard
Here is the initial technical spec of the C class 4matic models. It looks as if they are made in Bremen. It appears that some major front-end re-engineering is required in the C class, maybe due to size limitations not present in the E class? If they are prepared to redesign an entirely new front sub-frame and suspension, you would think a change to RHD spec would be a breeze even if it required the design of a new RHD sub-frame.
This data is from the original article on the German car fans website which is an excellent source of info. Sorry if its a bit long but I tried to extract the relevant 4matic information only http://www.germancarfans.com/news_preview.cfm/newsid/2020718.001/page/1/lang/eng/mercedes/1.html
C class 4matic initial technical specification
Power system consisting of a V6 engine, automatic transmission and transfer case
The centerpiece of 4MATIC is a single-stage transfer case with an open centre differential which compensates for any differences in the front and rear axle speeds. This is directly linked to the automatic transmission and forms a complete drive unit in conjunction with the V6 engine, torque converter and front axle gear. The front axle gear is designed as a so-called "hang-on unit", which means that it "hangs" on the newly designed engine sump to save space. A universal joint prop-shaft ensures a good connection between the transfer case and the front axle gear. The front axle drive is via noise-reduced spur gears which also act as an oil pump and provide the lubricant supply to the transfer case. The rear axle gear is identical to that used in the rear-wheel drive models and is connected to the drive unit via a shortened prop-shaft.
Newly developed front suspension with McPherson struts
The four-wheel drive system made it necessary to design a new front suspension. Instead of the three-link system the 4MATIC models feature a modified McPherson strut suspension with redesigned lower control arms of forged steel and forged steering knuckles. The Mercedes engineers have raised the front suspension by ten millimeters to give the 4MATIC variants greater ground clearance. The precise rack-and-pinion steering remains broadly unchanged, though the steering gear has been moved slightly to the rear with resulting modifications to the shape and length of the track rods. The rear axle of the new C-Class 4MATIC models features the patented multi-link independent suspension, which is still unrivalled in terms of handling safety, dynamic response and comfort.
Body-shell modified for 4MATIC
The C 240 4MATIC and C 320 4MATIC are produced at the Mercedes-Benz plant in Bremen. Here the four-wheel drive variants already go their own way during body-shell production, as the drive system makes certain modifications to the body structure necessary. Examples:
•To create space for the front drive shafts the front side members are cut away and fitted with additional reinforcing sections at the openings.
•The McPherson strut consoles are reinforced and adapted to the special 4MATIC struts.
•The integral support frame for the engine, transmission and front axle is a new development which has likewise been tailor-made for the special features of four-wheel drive. Compared with the corresponding component in the models with rear-wheel drive, modifications are necessary owing amongst other things to the altered position of the control arms, the torsion bar stabiliser and steering, as well as the additional space required for the front axle drive shafts. The integral support frame is of sheet steel in the 4MATIC models.
•The rear engine mounting features an additional connecting plate between the transmission tunnel and the main floor.
Powerful six-cylinder engines with 170 and 218 hp
Two high-torque six-cylinder engines guarantee effortless performance and dynamic driving enjoyment in the new C-Class 4MATIC models. There is a choice between the 2.6-litre V6 engine in the C 240 with 125 kW/170 hp and a maximum torque of 240 Newton meters , and the 3.2-litre power unit in the C 320 which has an output of 160 kW/218 hp and develops a torque of 310 Newton meters. In the 4MATIC variants of the C-Class Mercedes-Benz combines both engines with the electronically controlled, five-speed automatic transmission as standard
Here is the initial technical spec of the C class 4matic models. It looks as if they are made in Bremen. It appears that some major front-end re-engineering is required in the C class, maybe due to size limitations not present in the E class? If they are prepared to redesign an entirely new front sub-frame and suspension, you would think a change to RHD spec would be a breeze even if it required the design of a new RHD sub-frame.
This data is from the original article on the German car fans website which is an excellent source of info. Sorry if its a bit long but I tried to extract the relevant 4matic information only http://www.germancarfans.com/news_preview.cfm/newsid/2020718.001/page/1/lang/eng/mercedes/1.html
glojo
Hardcore MB Enthusiast
grober said:It appears that some major front-end re-engineering is required in the C class, maybe due to size limitations not present in the E class? If they are prepared to redesign an entirely new front sub-frame and suspension, you would think a change to RHD spec would be a breeze even if it required the design of a new RHD sub-frame.
Here comes the kill joy.
Before replying I thought it prudent to speak to an owner of a new C-class 4Matic. I must emphasis that this is the owner of a C-class!!
Bulge is still there on the passenger side for my 06... which is why they still do not offer a cargo net for the passenger side footwell...which would come in handy IMHO... oh well.
Regards,
John
glojo
Hardcore MB Enthusiast
Shude said:
There's nowt as crazy as folk!! I think what htey are basically saying is that the bulge is still there. Obviously the net would make pretty shapes on my delicate silky smooth soft skin (what sort of books do I read? )I suppose the writer was trying to be humorous.
John
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grober
MB Master
AUDI Weight distribution
Continuing on my AUDI 4wd comparison here's an illustration of the powertrain layout on the original Quattro showing the forward weight distribution bias. This leads to a naturally understeering car.
A bit like porsche but the other way round. As far as I know this is still the fore and aft layout used by Audi today, but others may know different.
Continuing on my AUDI 4wd comparison here's an illustration of the powertrain layout on the original Quattro showing the forward weight distribution bias. This leads to a naturally understeering car.
A bit like porsche but the other way round. As far as I know this is still the fore and aft layout used by Audi today, but others may know different. Attachments
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grober
MB Master
Porsche Carrera 4 wheel drive system
Good Morning John. I was just covering up my lack of knowledge of the latest Audi technology in case some Audi owners on this forum took me to task. and here's a picture of Porsche's 4 wheel drive system on the 911 (996 series) Carrera 4 for comparison. this is from the excellent-- Porsche 911 Carrera, Turbo & GT (996) Ultimate buyers guide.-- by Grant Neal and Peter Morgan.
Good Morning John.
I was just covering up my lack of knowledge of the latest Audi technology in case some Audi owners on this forum took me to task. and here's a picture of Porsche's 4 wheel drive system on the 911 (996 series) Carrera 4 for comparison. this is from the excellent-- Porsche 911 Carrera, Turbo & GT (996) Ultimate buyers guide.-- by Grant Neal and Peter Morgan.Attachments
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grober
MB Master
So It Goes!
As I promised in a previous thread I contacted Mercedes Benz Customer Services concerning the future provision of 4matic rhd models. I asked what I felt were reasonable questions about the technical reasons preventing this and was quite open about my involvement with this forum. Their reply was disappointing to say the least and while their reply told me nothing about 4matic it told me a lot about about Mercedes Benz attitude to a suggestion which might have helped increase their market share in the UK. I have now summarised their reply.------
Thank you for contacting the DaimlerChrysler Customer Assistance Center, whereby you have requested information regarding why the 4 Matic is not available in the United Kingdom. We have advised by our Technical Specialists that unfortunately the demand in the UK market for 4-Matic equipped Mercedes-Benz vehicles is too low and that is why they are not marketed in the United Kingdom. Please be advised that we can not discuss our company's procedures regarding how we market vehicles for the United Kingdom market.
.
As I promised in a previous thread I contacted Mercedes Benz Customer Services concerning the future provision of 4matic rhd models. I asked what I felt were reasonable questions about the technical reasons preventing this and was quite open about my involvement with this forum. Their reply was disappointing to say the least and while their reply told me nothing about 4matic it told me a lot about about Mercedes Benz attitude to a suggestion which might have helped increase their market share in the UK. I have now summarised their reply.------
Thank you for contacting the DaimlerChrysler Customer Assistance Center, whereby you have requested information regarding why the 4 Matic is not available in the United Kingdom. We have advised by our Technical Specialists that unfortunately the demand in the UK market for 4-Matic equipped Mercedes-Benz vehicles is too low and that is why they are not marketed in the United Kingdom. Please be advised that we can not discuss our company's procedures regarding how we market vehicles for the United Kingdom market.
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grober
MB Master
End of the POLL!
Seems an appropriate time to close the poll. Thanks to Shude for doing that for me. 
I would still welcome any comments on the thread if anyone else has anything else to contribute to the subject. Thanks to everyone who posted and voted.
Seems an appropriate time to close the poll.
Thanks to Shude for doing that for me. I would still welcome any comments on the thread if anyone else has anything else to contribute to the subject. Thanks to everyone who posted and voted.
OP
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grober
MB Master
BMW,s Xdrive
Just for the sake of BMW X3 AND X5 owners here's a cutaway of BMW's X drive system. In addition to individual 4 wheel braking via the ADB (Automatic differential brake) system, it uses an electronically controlled multiplate clutch in the central transfer case to distribute torque between front and rear axle according to need. The transfer case uses chain drive rather than gears in the 4matic system and is located on the left like the old Mercedes 4 matic layout.
Just for the sake of BMW X3 AND X5 owners here's a cutaway of BMW's X drive system. In addition to individual 4 wheel braking via the ADB (Automatic differential brake) system, it uses an electronically controlled multiplate clutch in the central transfer case to distribute torque between front and rear axle according to need. The transfer case uses chain drive rather than gears in the 4matic system and is located on the left like the old Mercedes 4 matic layout.
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grober
MB Master
The new lexus IS 250
Discussion on a recent post prompts me to add this.The new LEXUS IS 250 GUESS WHAT? Its available as a 4 wheel drive model in the USA (LHD) and in Japan (RHD) but not in the UK . I wrote to lexus to ask why. Here is the reply.
"Thank you for taking the time to write to Lexus GB. All Lexus vehicles sold in the UK were special designed and built for the UK. Please confirm whether you wish me to forward your comments on to the relevant department as all feedback from customers are valued by Lexus in their Pursuit for Perfection"
Are these guys using the same hymn sheet as "DaimlerChrysler UK????
Discussion on a recent post prompts me to add this.The new LEXUS IS 250 GUESS WHAT? Its available as a 4 wheel drive model in the USA (LHD) and in Japan (RHD) but not in the UK .
I wrote to lexus to ask why. Here is the reply."Thank you for taking the time to write to Lexus GB. All Lexus vehicles sold in the UK were special designed and built for the UK. Please confirm whether you wish me to forward your comments on to the relevant department as all feedback from customers are valued by Lexus in their Pursuit for Perfection"
Are these guys using the same hymn sheet as "DaimlerChrysler UK????