600 Quid Detail !!

[Superspec]

Last year I had my entire interior professionally restored. The seats, door cards, steering wheel, gear knob and pretty much everything else that was showing typical signs of wear & tear indicative to that of most 10 year old cars, was transformed to that of a typical 2 to 3 year old car. The chap who did the work came to my house and worked 7.5 hours. I consider him to be at the top of his game. His hourly rate works out at £33.

Now, do the detailers amongst us think someone at the top of their profession (someone mentioned they can earn £75 per hour) should be paid more or less than this?

I think £33 (VAT inc/ex?) is a damn good price. The £75 I said earlier relates to Paul Dalton who is regarded as one of the best in the world.

£33 an hour is only £1250 a week and that's assuming the guy can work all day for 5 days a week. And that's not his profit, that's turnover. I have no idea what his costs would be but I bet this guy is only just into the 40% tax bracket.

If you are in business you do it to make money at the end of the day. Someone said earlier everyone wants a job done cheaply, but no one wants a cheap job!!

 

[Superspec]

^Antiques usually rise in value and are therefore an investment. They also receive very little or no use.

Most cars on the otherhand, depreciate in value and are often used in many demanding ways.

I wasn't referencing whether or not it's worth spending the money on it (although I think it is - and you had your interior done for a similar daily rate so I suspect you do too to some extent) I was referencing the skill set and value of the professional service.

 

[billywhiz]

People, lets not get too hit up about the £75 and hour charge, that is from the UK's top detailer and yes I'm guessing his overheads are huge due to where/what he is.

The average detail professional charges out from, as we have read on here £23 an hour upwards, lets take a case in point here, for a lot of the member on this board, we earn more than that a hour for what we do.

How do we earn that, well we are where we are due to being trained and professional in our own outlook, how many of us can say yeah, anyone can do our job, it's not hard..

This is a whole big level above your eastern european wash outlets and if you want to support illegal immigration but at the same time sit round the coffee table and liaise with your peers on what a state this country is then that is your outlook - I'm not saying all or even a lot of them use illegal immigrants but we know it happens.

I spoke to some of those guys the other day and they were being paid £20 for 7 hours work. !! - The Asian owner was parked up nearby in his brand new BMW barking orders at the so called supervisor whilst feeding his face with doughnuts.

You really want to support these guys ?

If someone is prepared to get off their **** in the morning, do things 100% legal and work outside in all weathers putting the hard manual hours in to earn a living wage well bloody good luck to them, they have my full respect.

For anyone who says a proper detailed car would not bring in additional ££ at resale time is talking utter tosh - or has simply never seen in the flesh a proper detailed car..

I admire everyone on here who does take the time to personally clean their cars to a good level, apart from a house a car is normally a persons 2nd biggest investment, does this not warrant looking after ? Surely a clean car is reflective of you as a person in terms of meeting with peers, clientel or even family ?

Rather than keep our blinkers on, maybe it is time to see a few detailed cars? Theres enough threads both on here and over at DW. Maybe those who do honestly think the same result can be gotten by a few old T'shirts and some T-Cut will think again.

But as a nation of people, we all have choices, that's why we have Lidl's and that's why we have Harrods and thats why we have everything else in between.

We can all choose anything we want to but I certainly would not be accusing a trade like this of not being professional. What is the matter with some who has reached these skills charging what they want ? If they are good then they will have a constant client base.

I'm surprised at a few of the members on here how dimissive they are of pro detailers, as I said before, in your eyes what do you reckon a pro detailers hourly rate should be then ... < Anyone ?

I can image parts of this are going to be quoted left right and center.

Off for coffee, it's late !

 

[Deleted member 37751]

Why not buy a selection of what the 'detailers' use to clean the car and see how you get on? Swissvax seems to be good from what the cleaning fraternity on here say.

You'll get 100 times more satisfaction doing it yourself, I certainly would...

Like I said on Palmballs thread, while ever there are people out there willing to pay £300-600+ to get their car cleaned, good luck to the people that are charging those prices.
Like I say, each to their own.

I'll say this again for the tenth time; good luck to you lads that are charging what you do, I'm just showing genuine amazement that people will pay it.
There is no doubt that the cars look excellent after you've had your hands on them, they really do look well.

My point to the op was to buy these swissvax products and do the cleaning himself, he will get a lot more satisfaction doing it that way.

There is a difference between taking pride in the appearance of your car (which I do)and spending hundreds of pounds on a job that is pretty straightforward for anyone half-savvy to do themselves.

How you can compare cleaning and waxing etc prices with the actual maintenance of the engine and the other necessary costs of a car is a joke.

and by the same token, ^^ no-one wants to have a normal name for their job anymore because you can charge more if you come up with another name for it.

Let me get this straight, you think that a 'detailer' is trained to the comparative skill level of a Mercedes technician/mechanic?

The fact is this; good luck to you if you are charging these sorts of amounts yourself. And I do mean that aswell, anyone that relieves stupid rich people of their money, well done.

But to expect that I believe it, well.....

Good luck

I think the finish on the car paintwork that you do is excellent, and i do genuinely believe that, but to compare it to say a mechanic or a plumber is astonishing.

I've enjoyed the debate, either way.

And if you took time to read my posts on 'detailing', you would see that I wish all the best to those that do it for a living.

Just read the full thread on 'Detailing World'

I think what we've got to remember is that to a lot of them, this work is their livelihood so they are going to defend it to the death.

I genuinely do like to see a 'clean' car, and I think the irony of all this is that most people in this debate also like a 'clean' car, it's just that they prefer to do it theirselves.

I suppose my biggest gripe with all this is this talk of how much more your car will be worth after a 'detail'. I think it's a load of rubbish, but what do I know I only sell the things for a living....

And I'll say this for the last time because it's becoming tedious now;
Good luck to all you car washers/valeters/detailers, doing what you do, I hope your businesses continue to flourish.

It's making me smile how in my posts I've said what a good job you 'detailers' do and all the rest, yet you & others choose to pick a fight over what I KNOW through my own experiences.

I understand that 'detailers' have to defend their job, and like I have said before; I like to take care of my own car and keep it clean. Yet no-one seems to want to take note of this.

Anyway, this is going round in circles now, a bit like my paintwork....

I get the impression you're into antiques.

Think about this. I am a practical person, I can turn my hand to pretty much anything, to an extent.

Lets say I had an piece of antique furniture that was worth £2000. Lets also say that this piece of furniture is a bit tired after a long life servicing whatever need it was designed to fulfil. If I wanted to get it looking like new I would have two choices.

Do it myself or pay someone with the necessary skills, equipment and experience to do it for me.

So lets say I read something on an internet forum and got out my £25 B&Q sander, a pack of assorted sand papers and set to (it's a table in my head.) I sand off the old layers of varnish, use some finer papers to finish off so it's nice and smooth and then varnish it with a few coats of a varnish from B&Q sanding gently between each coat to make sure it's nice and shiny. I guess I could make it look ok. But I suspect I would massively devalue the table.

My alternative would be to pay a restorer to do whatever it is they do to bring it back to life. I suspect this would cost me a few hundred pounds because the time it takes time to do right and the person doing it has honed his/her skills over a number of years.

In this case I would pay the restorer because it would be done right and would retain the value of the piece, actually, it would probably enhance it.

I bet if you are into antiques you were wincing when I was talking about going to work on it in my garage!!

I value the skill of the restorer and the professional detailer in the same way.

If you don't get detailing don't hire a detailer. But please don't rubbish what they do.

Just for you I have multi-quoted myself, because like 'fatdazza' you seem intent on not listening to other peoples views and then berating people that don't take on board what you are saying.
Does it sound like I'm 'rubbishing' what they do?
Or do I say that they job they do and the finish they achieve is excellent?

I tend to be pretty open-minded about things in life generally, but the reaction from the 'cleaning crew' on this thread is making me have less empathy towards your argument.

Having read the full thread on 'Detailing World' there are a couple of posts which mention that 'education' is the key to explaining what 'detailers' do but instead of that, a few have joined this forum and made the situation worse.

Now me, I love cars. There can be no better sound than the grumble of a Mercedes V8, that's one of the reasons why I joined this forum. I also genuinely like to see a clean car aswell, which I've mentioned on numerous occassions, a point that yourself and 'fatdazza' seem to want to skim over...

And also like I said before, I know that those who do it for a living are going to defend what they do until their last breath. Which I don't have a problem with, it's pretty much a free world out there and while ever people are willing to pay upto £75 per hour to have their car cleaned, that's up to them.

In my experience, NO-ONE has EVER asked if a car for sale is detailed. NO-ONE. So to me, there isn't any value in it. TO ME.

My last point will be this; if 'detailing' adds say £1500 to an £8,000 car, then why aren't you all just buying cars and 'detailing' them over 3 days and sellling them on, earning yourselves a very tidy profit?

Now take the time to read the full post and let it absorb, because I'm going out now for a Sunday morning blast.....

 

[tpwuk]

One of the cleaning crew said the paint work finish they can achieve is actually better than that of a brand new car. So with that in mind, are you saying you could detail a brand new, factory fresh car and then sell it for more than list price?

 

[fatdazza]

Sweatpea

My dear Sweatpea,

I could trawl back through my posts and reprint them, however I know that this is not necessary.

I have always "listened" to your posts, demonstrated by the fact that I have taken the time to respond.

I have never been rude or "berated" your opinion. I have disagreed with your opinion but that is my right.

I have also corrected you when you have attempted to "put words in my mouth" by para phrasing my post in your own words. Indeed the example of your response to my post (below) seems very much to come under the banner of "berating" and misquoting

"How you can compare cleaning and waxing etc prices with the actual maintenance of the engine and the other necessary costs of a car is a joke.

For the record I am not a "detailer" but I have respect for the skill and knowledge that they employ in producing the results they do.

 

[tpwuk]

^Would it have been better if sweatpea replaced the word "you" with "some people" ?

I might be wrong but I'm reading that as a generalisation rather than directed at you.

 

[Deleted member 37751]

"How you can compare cleaning and waxing etc prices with the actual maintenance of the engine and the other necessary costs of a car is a joke.

For the record I am not a "detailer" but I have respect for the skill and knowledge that they employ in producing the results they do.

But this is a fact.
If you don't wash *your* car, it still works.

If you don't maintain or service your car, it ceases to work.

So, maintaining & servicing your car is a necessity, cleaning it is not.

Can we agree on that?

 

[Deleted member 37751]

^Would it have been better if sweatpea replaced the word "you" with "some people" ?

I might be wrong but I'm reading that as a generalisation rather than directed at you.

It was a originally a generalisation, but not everyone seemed to realise that.

 

[fatdazza]

But this is a fact.
If you don't wash *your* car, it still works.

If you don't maintain or service your car, it ceases to work.

So, maintaining & servicing your car is a necessity, cleaning it is not.

Can we agree on that?

I can certainly agree on that. However I never said that cleaning was a necessity. My original post merely stated that some people spend a fortune on maintenance and servicing to maintain resale value (taking your point about it also being a necessity) and yet spend a pittance on keeping the car looking good (which also affects resale value). I never gave them equal weighting, just said that they both affect resale value. A full service book of dealer stamps and a dull, scratched paintwork together will not get the best price for your car.

 

[Deleted member 37751]

Thanks, I feel as though the lines have become a bit blurred between what I've said and what others have perceived I've meant.

 

[Robgm]

My last point will be this; if 'detailing' adds say £1500 to an £8,000 car, then why aren't you all just buying cars and 'detailing' them over 3 days and sellling them on, earning yourselves a very tidy profit?

When you write it like that, yes it sounds a good idea, but realistically it wouldn't work, due to the time it takes to move the cars on.

In reality you are wishing to sell your car, you have been offered £8000, it is neglected and book price should be nearer £9500-£10,000.
Then it's worthwhile spending out on someones time to professionally detail the car, increase the value and curb appeal.

Same applies for a car you have just bought or already own and plan on keeping, detailing is an evergrowing industry and you only have to look on the forums to see this.
It's not to everyones taste and not everyone gets it, yourself included, your entitled to your opinions and clearly it's not for you, but I don't understand why you would want to devalue the service claiming it as little more than a car clean.
Most of the details I undertake are over 3-4 days, it's not easy and it certainly isn't spent sitting around drinking coffee, there is a skill element and costs involved, hence the charges reflect this, but to this date I haven't had a customer that was less than overjoyed at the results and felt it was money well spent.

Thanks

Professional Detailer.

 

[Superspec]

Just for you I have multi-quoted myself, because like 'fatdazza' you seem intent on not listening to other peoples views and then berating people that don't take on board what you are saying.
Does it sound like I'm 'rubbishing' what they do?
Or do I say that they job they do and the finish they achieve is excellent?

I tend to be pretty open-minded about things in life generally, but the reaction from the 'cleaning crew' on this thread is making me have less empathy towards your argument.

Having read the full thread on 'Detailing World' there are a couple of posts which mention that 'education' is the key to explaining what 'detailers' do but instead of that, a few have joined this forum and made the situation worse.

Now me, I love cars. There can be no better sound than the grumble of a Mercedes V8, that's one of the reasons why I joined this forum. I also genuinely like to see a clean car aswell, which I've mentioned on numerous occassions, a point that yourself and 'fatdazza' seem to want to skim over...

And also like I said before, I know that those who do it for a living are going to defend what they do until their last breath. Which I don't have a problem with, it's pretty much a free world out there and while ever people are willing to pay upto £75 per hour to have their car cleaned, that's up to them.

In my experience, NO-ONE has EVER asked if a car for sale is detailed. NO-ONE. So to me, there isn't any value in it. TO ME.

My last point will be this; if 'detailing' adds say £1500 to an £8,000 car, then why aren't you all just buying cars and 'detailing' them over 3 days and sellling them on, earning yourselves a very tidy profit?

Now take the time to read the full post and let it absorb, because I'm going out now for a Sunday morning blast.....

If you read my posts I berated one person, deservedly so, who called the industry crap.

You have said you do not see the value in the work that a detailer does and have played down their worth. You have said their work is less important than mechanics. You are entitled to your opinion and that's fine. I was just trying to use an example that I thought may be closer to home to illustrate my point.

There is a lot of animosity here towards the detailing fraternity and I didn't join in the debate until I had been wound up by it. I get that people don't understand it or see value in it. However not once have I berated an individual who chooses not to look after his car, I don't understand why you wouldn't but that's just me, I don't knock anyone for it.

The industry exists. They charge on average £300 (if they are any good) and nothing that either side says in this forum will change that.

And for the record I was an MB Club member before I joined DW.

I won't post on this topic again because the debate that is going on relates to the value of the work they do and I am never going to agree that it isn't worth £300 a day. As such I will refuse to accept other people's arguments in the same way those of you who don't think it is worth it will never accept my arguments.

There is only one person here I have an issue with and it's not you.

I think it's time a moderator closed this thread.

 

[renault12ts]

I agree close this thread, its beyond the usual joke.

 

[tpwuk]

One of the cleaning crew said the paint work finish they can achieve is actually better than that of a brand new car. So with that in mind, are you saying you could detail a brand new, factory fresh car and then sell it for more than list price?

Anyone care to answer this?

I also get the impression that a few of the detailers think anything less than detailing your paintwork is considered as neglecting the cars appearance.

 

[nick mercedes]

In my experience, NO-ONE has EVER asked if a car for sale is detailed. NO-ONE. So to me, there isn't any value in it. TO ME.

Back in the day people had their cars valeted, and to sort out the paint they were mopped.

Now they are "detailed" and "paint corrected", and instead of £50 it's £300?

 

[Deleted member 37751]

Anyone care to answer this?

I also get the impression that a few of the detailers think anything less than detailing your paintwork is considered as neglecting the cars appearance.

How cynical of you, thinking that they would do such a thing to generate business.

I've stated a few times how much I look after my cars, yet still get accused of not looking after it because I don't 'detail'.

 

[scillyisles1]

Yeah that's right. Now, convert that in to £ and work out what you would need to charge if it were your business.

Ermm I have not made any comments about cost - I have merely said that detailing is not comparable to a doctor/dentist etc who are in professions that requires 6+ years education/training etc before they are allowed out on the general public.
Please read my posts - I said that detailing takes time, hard work and care to achieve good results. All the tools that detailers use are available to the general public and as such an enthusiastic amateur can produce results that are comparable to a good detailer. In my particular circumstances I choose to do this work myself and have had many comments from people in the motor trade that I could do this professionally. I agree that if I was to charge for my time and cost of materials used etc that I would have to charge a reasonable amount to make it worthwhile.

 

[Deleted member 37751]

Back in the day people had their cars valeted, and to sort out the paint they were mopped.

Now they are "detailed" and "paint corrected", and instead of £50 it's £300?

Nick, no-one seems happy with a normal job title anymore.

I always wondered where Tony Blairs spin doctors went to....

 

[nick mercedes]

Nick, no-one seems happy with a normal job title anymore.

I always wondered where Tony Blairs spin doctors went to....

Just like the sales assistants in Comet are all "sales executives", I would imagine most detailers will give it up once they get girlfriends.