722 gearbox problem 'cover-up'

[Pitts Pilot]

MB have deep pockets and probably pay large legal insurance premiums to provide lawyers with all the time in the world to drag cases on for ever... In no way does any of this help the consumer either for new or second hand MB's.

Adverse publicity would probably do them more financial harm, especially if the weight of U.S. owners with the same problems joined the act. If anyone fancies mud slinging with MB then great care has to be taken with the kind of mud used and where it's aimed otherwise you could face slander accusations. Proven Facts are always best and there do seem to be a great deal of these boxes with similar issues.

On a separated but relevant point, have replacement electronic/hydraulic/mechanical parts been upgraded/made good over the original Siemens design/manufacture (have MB resourced these elsewhere?) or are all 722.9 box owners potentially facing the same issues with brand new replacement parts still?? I've not seen anything online which advises one way or other definitively...

Good question

I too do not know whether the electronics have been updated.

I would be interested to hear from post 2012 owners (of the R231) as to whether they are having transmission problems.

Robert

 

[Pitts Pilot]

We're talking about 722.9 gearboxes that 'almost give you whiplash' aren't we?

Yes

The article referred to was about ABC suspension; so not relevant.

Cheers,
Robert

 

[Pitts Pilot]

Hmm that's interesting.

Ray Technology are in Guangzhou, a little north of Hong Kong.

Mercedes Benz Transmission Components 722.9 Valve Body Assy 2202702706 - quality Transmission Components for sale

I import a lot from that region (air pallet freight monthly) and we have a good agent there that could talk to the factory.

If this part is really an issue and the forum members were interested in a bulk purchase it wouldn't be difficult for me to arrange. Subject to MOQ's from the factory of course.

I will add at this point that I have no knowledge about the part, it's suitability or it's quality, but I do know about importing from China.

Thank you

Your kind offer may well provide a solution.


I have however got to enquire about the 'coding' of the solenoids.

There are 8 I understand, and they need to be programmed before the gearbox will work.

May I come back to you?

Cheers,
Robert

 

[Pitts Pilot]

Just pay up and move on!

For every 722 that is causing complaints there must be thousands on the road which are ok....

The thing is we are in an era of "obsolescence"....why is Volvo not here as it used to be and why did it go bankrupt?......because the motors were all over engineered and were very reliable and so was sold to Ford in 2000`ish.

How do we know that MB did not instruct Seimens to build the 722 software to break down?

If MB do not collect monies from there motors sales or breakdowns then they too will not be here just like Volvo.

There are a couple of well known high quality hi-fi manufactures that have a time clock in there software and when so many hours of running has elapsed then the unit does not work!....it then has to go to the makers and be serviced and then the clock is reset......in the meantime the owner has paid out money for nothing to the makers as there is nothing wrong with the unit!

I know this to be true as i fix these units and have the pdf. of servicing.

You won`t ever get a manufacturer to own up to such practices as the whole world revolves around corruption.

So as said ...pay up and move on!

"There are a couple of well known high quality hi-fi manufactures that have a time clock in there software and when so many hours of running has elapsed then the unit does not work!....it then has to go to the makers and be serviced and then the clock is reset......in the meantime the owner has paid out money for nothing to the makers as there is nothing wrong with the unit!

I know this to be true as i fix these units and have the pdf. of servicing."


I clearly wear rose tinted glasses, as I am genuinely shocked to hear this.

Yes, we all know that regular light bulbs are built to expire at around 1000 hours thus leaving the light bulb manufacturer room to charge more for his 2000 hour alternative, but your comments seem perversely different to me.

Point taken regarding Volvo.

Cheers,
Robert

 

[Pitts Pilot]

722 is just the designation for pretty much all Mercedes auto boxes, going back decades and decades. 722.3, 722.4, 722.5, 722.6, they are all pretty bullet proof with minimal issues over the years providing they are correctly serviced with regular fluid changes.

With this in mind, your title is misleading.

Fair point

I should have said 722.9

Cheers,
Robert

 

[Pitts Pilot]

I spoke to Valvebodytech in Luton today.

They have seen the problems I described many times before and advised that the issue can be called by one of two problems.

First the valve Control Module develops a fault, and second, a circlip becomes loose on one of the clutches.

I had not heard of the latter problem before, but they assured me that they have had to carry out repairs to this remedy this particular problem before.


As a result of my conversation I have booked my car in, in a fortnight's time, to have them look at it.

I explained that everyone who had investigated the problem had not found any fault codes.

They replied by saying that it was not a matter of fault codes, but required them to look at "Live data".

I do not know what this entails as I am yet to visit them, but presumably hooking the car up to a Star machine (?) whilst the car is running and the gearbox is active.

The appointment is an initial assessment so I will report back in two weeks time.


Incidentally, they quoted £950 for a re-manufactured Control Module "Supplied and fitted". That would take care of the 'coding' issue I mentioned earlier.


Just like DATSC in Cardiff, they seemed un-phased by my transmission problems and simply said they had repaired several 722.9's and could advise me on mine. Worth a punt?

Cheers,
Robert

 

[KeithJG]

I think he might mean general service life. Like Epson printers need an engineering mode to reset them back to working condition, MB SBC Pumps have a actuation timeout built in that needs a reset.

No I don't mean mechanical devices like printers etc.

I mean digital items such as radios and cd players where the only mechanical moving part is the lens carriage which just needs a silicon grease for a service.

Apart from getting dust off the optical lense all the rest of the components are non servicable electrical pcb's where the time clock is situated.

 

[neilrr]

^^ This.

You should have a read of one members efforts to bring a case against MB and the following lies , perjury, and denial to ensure the case was won.
Just in case you have an hour or two spare, here it is.

AS MERCEDES BENZ LIKES IT

Yeah, but that guy is clearly a nutcase.

 

[Pitts Pilot]

Originally Posted by AMGeed View Post
^^ This.

You should have a read of one members efforts to bring a case against MB and the following lies , perjury, and denial to ensure the case was won.
Just in case you have an hour or two spare, here it is.

AS MERCEDES BENZ LIKES IT

Yeah, but that guy is clearly a nutcase.

.
.
.
.
.

The whole fight was pyrrhic.

Cheers,
Robert

 

[a111r]

Yes

The article referred to was about ABC suspension; so not relevant.

Cheers,
Robert

Sorry if I was unclear. I did not search the model-specific recalls.

I meant that if you and other 722.9 uses think there's a safety issue here that the manufacturer has not held their hand up to, i.e. a voluntary recall, then you should report it to them and let a body of evidence amass, or otherwise.
That's how the system used to work 20 years ago when I worked there.

 

[Mr Kripling]

Generally, claims of planned obsolescence always strike me as a fundamental misunderstanding of how engineering and economics work.

The idea that car companies deliberately design components to fail in order to generate revenues from the repairs is just ridiculous. If that were a sound business practice, British Leyland would have been the world's most successful car company and Toyota and Honda would have disappeared without trace.

 

[Bobby Dazzler]

From a very simplistic stand point, I suspect the suggestions that components are planned to fail originate from there being a defined, albeit estimated (or calculated) service life for some components, like bearings.

Bearing manufacturers will provide an estimated (or calculated) service life for each of there bearings based upon tests performed on a (sizeable) sample group. The result is then included in that bearings specification.

So if you're engineering a gearbox, then you'll short list bearings based upon a factors like space available, rotational speed, the load it will be under and so on. One factor could be service life, which may or may not be the same as that planned for the gearbox as a whole.

From the short list, you can select the most appropriate bearing for the application, and there may be a choice of bearings, each with a different service life. Longer service life often means more expensive.

The service life estimate is usually based upon the service life you can expect 90% of the sample to achieve. So some will fail sooner. Some will fail close to the service life, and some will continue well beyond that point.

 

[nick mercedes]

Yeah, but that guy is clearly a nutcase.

Nice car though

 

[nick mercedes]

How do we know that MB did not instruct Seimens to build the 722 software to break down?

No reason to do that.

The issue is that to bring prices down Mercedes have had to take a few short cuts.

Back in the '70s a Mercedes Benz cost as much as a house, now they cost as much as a Ford, and *anyone* who wants one can have one.

Just add useless transmissions to the list:

M271 that fail and cost a fortune to put right
M272 that fail and cost a fortune to put right
Vitos that rust to the point of no return despite being galvanized
Sprinters that rust to the point of no return despite being galvanized
Anything electrical failing
Locks failing
W204 door handles being so weak and badly designed they fail
Cars catching fire
Injectors failing, and then again, and again..........................

 

[Rory]

No reason to do that.

The issue is that to bring prices down Mercedes have had to take a few short cuts.

Back in the '70s a Mercedes Benz cost as much as a house, now they cost as much as a Ford, and *anyone* who wants one can have one.

Just add useless transmissions to the list:

M271 that fail and cost a fortune to put right
M272 that fail and cost a fortune to put right
Vitos that rust to the point of no return despite being galvanized
Sprinters that rust to the point of no return despite being galvanized
Anything electrical failing
Locks failing
W204 door handles being so weak and badly designed they fail
Cars catching fire
Injectors failing, and then again, and again..........................

Verring a bit off topic but you could probably put a list like that together for any manufacturer. Look at VAG - many nightmare models, especially once they get to 4+ yrs old, so your typical used car buyer can get absolutely murdered. But they're still seen as a desirable marque.

 

[Red C220]

The whole fight was pyrrhic.

Cheers,
Robert

Who else needed to Google "pyrrhic"?

My vocabulary has grown by one word this morning.

 

[Tim203]

I did , good word too, cheers Pitts Pilot !
I guess matey won't be goin back to the same dealer to get his next Benz then

 

[lordlee]

Our SLK had the speed sensor go on it which was very fortunately 'only' £450 to replace - it has completely cured the car of its jerkiness and now the box is far better. I still hugely prefer the 722.6 on the SL but at least it now operates properly.

 

[st13phil]

The idea that car companies deliberately design components to fail in order to generate revenues from the repairs is just ridiculous.

While that's true, different manufacturers will have different criteria regarding minimum expected service life.

Also, I remember back in the 1980's at least one other manufacturer studying how VAG had become so good at synchronising end of life of so many major components.

 

[Mr Kripling]

While that's true, different manufacturers will have different criteria regarding minimum expected service life.

Absolutely, but in economic terms there is always a trade-off somewhere. It usually costs more to increase the MTBF of a component/system and if that doesn't increase economic returns elsewhere there's not really any rationale for doing so.