Nasco12
Active Member
Stupid question time... but... how dangerous are bald tyres in the dry?
trapperjohn
MB Enthusiast
It is the business of the headmaster to ensure his staff set a good example to the students at all times whilst on school property - and further afield too I should not wonder. He is also responsible for the safety of his staff and pupils.
Outside most schools are bus drop off points with, perhaps buses dropping the odd bit of oil and diesel on the road. Cue dry spell followed by rain followed by teacher trying to turn into school car park followed by a "Dancing on Ice" session with the Cruiser taking out a few pupils as it demolished a gate post. Because it has no grip on the tyres.
Hats off to Ringway for not just walking on by. This is not tell tale tit or grassing someone up the HM. Just plain good old nouse working.
They will offer good grip , but are much more susceptible to punctures due to being thinner .
prprandall51
MB Enthusiast
Good point!
Ringway: How do you know that this teacher doesn't have a team of mechanics waiting round the back of the playground with a set of wets at the ready? Slightest sign of a shower and thirteen seconds later and she would have been good to go.
renault12ts
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It is no LESS the business of the Head or anyone else. It's everybody's business!!
trapperjohn
MB Enthusiast
Sometimes I get a bit "SlackAlice" (Other genders and names are available) at checking stuff an am grateful for pointers that something is wrong.
grober
MB Master
I cannot really comment since I don't know anyone going through the "learning process" at the moment but it is a "tell" question which makes me suspect the instructor will not bother to demonstrate the use of a tyre tread depth gauge for example but merely go over the theoretical wear limits with the learner driver. A good instructor might go further but always runs the risk of their pupil asking "and will I be asked to do this in the test?" and the honest answer would have to be no. I'm not sure what the going rate per hour for driving lessons is now but I'm sure some driving school customers might object to paying for something they won't be tested on.
While better than many countries the driving test is really a one off achieving a minimum standard rather than a striving for excellence exercise unfortunately.
Yes , this highlights the difference between learning to drive and learning to pass the test !
Certainly , when my daughter was learning ( a combination of being taught by me and by a driving school ) I did teach her some basics , including checking fluids and showing her how to change a wheel - I did feel a bit rotten standing back and making her do everything by herself , including skinning her knuckles on the ground when trying to undo wheel bolts , but at least I know that if she was stranded somewhere with a flat tyre she would know what to do .....
Certainly , when my daughter was learning ( a combination of being taught by me and by a driving school ) I did teach her some basics , including checking fluids and showing her how to change a wheel - I did feel a bit rotten standing back and making her do everything by herself , including skinning her knuckles on the ground when trying to undo wheel bolts , but at least I know that if she was stranded somewhere with a flat tyre she would know what to do .....
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I have adopted a similar approach with my son who'll be taking his driving test in a couple of months.
With me instructing, he has serviced his VW Golf (oil/filters), fitted mudflaps, radio, washed engine bay, been shown how/where to raise the car with the VW and trolley jack and use of chocs and axle stands.
The wheels on my 210 were fitted by my son to the correct torque settings and I have no qualms about this.
He's turned in to a VW Golf enthusiast and regularly visits the Golf forum.
With money saved from his paper round etc, he has bought a used set of BBS alloys with tyres.
Last week, on our ebay account I found he's watching a set of coilovers.
He's a cautious lad, so much so that he was worried about the effect the larger BBS wheels and tyres may have on his speedo reading.
A lot of what he knows has been gleaned from the Golf forum and a natural desire to learn about his car and how to drive it.
Dieselman
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As you say, directly it's none of the Headmasters Business, but it is one of his staff, so maybe he could bring that to their attention more easily than a member of the public.
The HM also has a legal duty of care to the other school users so might want to ban that car from their premises until the tyres are sorted.
Are you saying that Ringway should have just phoned the Police and got the driver six points and a couple of thousand pounds fine, which would have been the other course of action?
I don't visually check my tyres all the time, but since I've been 20, i've always owned a car with more then 200bhp and i KNOW when the tyres are gone, or on their way out.
Even when I had the C200, I could tell when the tyres needed to change because it just becomes tail happy, but I used to push that car very hard, some drivers just poodle from A to B and probably cannot feel these things.
Even when I had the C200, I could tell when the tyres needed to change because it just becomes tail happy, but I used to push that car very hard, some drivers just poodle from A to B and probably cannot feel these things.
A160DSB
Active Member
I passed 6 months ago now (roughly)
The "tell me, show me" questions are near enough pointless.
Literally, the examiner will go, "open the bonnet, and show me where your oil is" ... the pupil literally just points at it, and for extra brownie points tells them that it needs to be between minimum and maximum on the dipstick.
I found it strange when "learning to drive" that maintenance and DIY wasn't part of the learning process of going from a provisional to a full licence. The most important of "tell me, show me" questions are "tell me" for example "how much tread must you have in your tyres?" I always insisted on showing the examiner (yes, it took me 3 times to poass, and all 3 times i got that question).
I believe the driving test system is flawed in this sense because it, as has been pointed out before, "we" are taught to pass a test, not drive a car.
The "tell me, show me" questions are near enough pointless.
Literally, the examiner will go, "open the bonnet, and show me where your oil is" ... the pupil literally just points at it, and for extra brownie points tells them that it needs to be between minimum and maximum on the dipstick.
I found it strange when "learning to drive" that maintenance and DIY wasn't part of the learning process of going from a provisional to a full licence. The most important of "tell me, show me" questions are "tell me" for example "how much tread must you have in your tyres?" I always insisted on showing the examiner (yes, it took me 3 times to poass, and all 3 times i got that question).
I believe the driving test system is flawed in this sense because it, as has been pointed out before, "we" are taught to pass a test, not drive a car.
SilverSaloon
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I dont think that would be allowed to happen nowadays? I could be wrong. I hope I'm not.
A160DSB
Active Member
Your kind of wrong.
it's 'legal' but theres a mountain of paperwork the teachers/parent/pupils (depending on age) have to fill it, it makes it much more easier to get on a coach.
it's 'legal' but theres a mountain of paperwork the teachers/parent/pupils (depending on age) have to fill it, it makes it much more easier to get on a coach.
finisterre
Active Member
There is no law against being a responsible adult.
You can fill in a pile of paperwork or or you can just give a kid that has missed the bus a lift home. There is a duty of care that trumps box ticking forms. Using a car fit for purpose would be part of that duty. The insurance can get complicated but if you add business usage it will be fine.
The mrs is a teacher. I just asked her.
You can fill in a pile of paperwork or or you can just give a kid that has missed the bus a lift home. There is a duty of care that trumps box ticking forms. Using a car fit for purpose would be part of that duty. The insurance can get complicated but if you add business usage it will be fine.
The mrs is a teacher. I just asked her.
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Common sense has prevailed.
I saw the PT Cruiser again today and it has a new set of front tyres (couldn't tell if brand new or part-worn whilst sitting in the van though).
I was going to take another picture but saw the owner approaching as I was getting my phone-camera ready.
I saw the PT Cruiser again today and it has a new set of front tyres (couldn't tell if brand new or part-worn whilst sitting in the van though).
I was going to take another picture but saw the owner approaching as I was getting my phone-camera ready.
E CLASS
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If you see a car with bad tyres report it immediately to the police and where possible photograph it.
I have not responded to this thread before now, but will today from three angles. 1 from a police perspective, one from a driving instructors perspective and one from a level headed member of the public.
Because of my military, police and driving instructor training, I am one of those that actually does a full inspection of my own car every day. It takes me 5 minutes to visually walk around the car in the morning checking all lights, followed by recording the tyre depth for each tyre and the pressure of each too. I also chcek oil, water and washer fluids. It is in my interest because of my job not to have a defective car, but it is equally for my own economic driving, safety and reassurenace that everything is ok. How many times have you run out of washer fluid on a motorway JUST when you really need it?
Would I expect everyone to do the same? No. Of course not. But a simple weekly check of the same level would avoid this and many similar situations arising. Having said that, how do we know this driver didn't have their good wheels swapped by a criminal who had bald tyres? Assumption is always a problem, so even though the likelihood is that the driver/owner must be accountable, unless they actually drive it on the public highway in that condition, no offence has been commited. If they had checked their tyres that morning and someone had changed them, would they be aware? I don't recheck my tyres after I buy the morning paper or before I drive home again at night, other than a quick glance for flat tyres or car park damage.
For all we know, they were aware and had put an old wheel on and taken a taxi to get a replacement!
As a driving instructor I can tell you a little more about the show me - tell me situation. Even if a pupil gets both questions completely wrong, eg 'I don't know and I don't care either' type atitude, they will not fail the test on that basis alone. The can pick up a maximum of one driver fault for that and unless they get another 14 on their test, or a serious/dangerous fault, they can still pass. So, the element is worthless in that respect. Plus pupils learning where the oil goes on their instructors Corsa will not help when they buy a Fiesta. Most teenagers are too lazy to ever bother with such trivia anyway. (I know, I have two!)
From a sensible member of the public perspective, I would have left a note on the windscreen advising the owner of the illegal and dangerous tyre and left it at that.
A police officer would not do that (other hat). One would have to speak with the owner once aware. Imagaine the scenario of doing nothing and this vehicle then being involved in a fatal RTC. When you can make a difference you should. It doesn't have to be a penalty and peoples reactions will often tell you they were unaware and will do something immediately. The owner was probably blissfully unaware. Some will take the note, think OMG! and go straight to kWIK fit or similar. Others will discard it with a calous 'MYOB' attitude. We will not know which until it happens.
However, what I would not do in any capacity is tell the headmaster. That then becomes involving a party who has no actual need to be involved. It could only serve to cause trouble. Yes, the driver should be aware, but a note would do that. What is the point of potentially causing them problems at work?
Soapbox away. Waiting for flack......
Because of my military, police and driving instructor training, I am one of those that actually does a full inspection of my own car every day. It takes me 5 minutes to visually walk around the car in the morning checking all lights, followed by recording the tyre depth for each tyre and the pressure of each too. I also chcek oil, water and washer fluids. It is in my interest because of my job not to have a defective car, but it is equally for my own economic driving, safety and reassurenace that everything is ok. How many times have you run out of washer fluid on a motorway JUST when you really need it?
Would I expect everyone to do the same? No. Of course not. But a simple weekly check of the same level would avoid this and many similar situations arising. Having said that, how do we know this driver didn't have their good wheels swapped by a criminal who had bald tyres? Assumption is always a problem, so even though the likelihood is that the driver/owner must be accountable, unless they actually drive it on the public highway in that condition, no offence has been commited. If they had checked their tyres that morning and someone had changed them, would they be aware? I don't recheck my tyres after I buy the morning paper or before I drive home again at night, other than a quick glance for flat tyres or car park damage.
For all we know, they were aware and had put an old wheel on and taken a taxi to get a replacement!
As a driving instructor I can tell you a little more about the show me - tell me situation. Even if a pupil gets both questions completely wrong, eg 'I don't know and I don't care either' type atitude, they will not fail the test on that basis alone. The can pick up a maximum of one driver fault for that and unless they get another 14 on their test, or a serious/dangerous fault, they can still pass. So, the element is worthless in that respect. Plus pupils learning where the oil goes on their instructors Corsa will not help when they buy a Fiesta. Most teenagers are too lazy to ever bother with such trivia anyway. (I know, I have two!)
From a sensible member of the public perspective, I would have left a note on the windscreen advising the owner of the illegal and dangerous tyre and left it at that.
A police officer would not do that (other hat). One would have to speak with the owner once aware. Imagaine the scenario of doing nothing and this vehicle then being involved in a fatal RTC. When you can make a difference you should. It doesn't have to be a penalty and peoples reactions will often tell you they were unaware and will do something immediately. The owner was probably blissfully unaware. Some will take the note, think OMG! and go straight to kWIK fit or similar. Others will discard it with a calous 'MYOB' attitude. We will not know which until it happens.
However, what I would not do in any capacity is tell the headmaster. That then becomes involving a party who has no actual need to be involved. It could only serve to cause trouble. Yes, the driver should be aware, but a note would do that. What is the point of potentially causing them problems at work?
Soapbox away. Waiting for flack......
Sp!ke
Administrator
My wife works at a primary school and quite regularly staff have to take kids in their own vehicles to get to swimming or whatever depending on numbers and whether its appropriate to hire a minibus or not.
I suppose one should have specific insurance for this but I'm pretty sure my wife doesn't - suspect the other staff don't either, nor the school.
I must tackle her on it really and get her to check the law/policy details.
grober
MB Master
Common sense has prevailed.
I saw the PT Cruiser again today and it has a new set of front tyres (couldn't tell if brand new or part-worn whilst sitting in the van though).
I was going to take another picture but saw the owner approaching as I was getting my phone-camera ready.
RESULT! give yourself a pat on the back.
You may well have saved the woman's or a member of her family's life and possibly several others. Without your action fast forward to hot summers day a month from now. She's on a family visit to an aged relative with her daughter in the car driving happily down the centre lane of the motorway when that front tyre "lets go" She spins into the central barrier but everybody is OK cause the airbags, seat belts and tensioners have done their job 
--- that's until the 30 ton Artic that was fifty yards behind her does a fair imitation of a car crusher on what remains of the Cruiser 
taking out a passing tour bus of pensioners on an outing in the process! The civilised thing to do is first to inform the car owner with defective dangerous tyres like this they are a danger to themselves and the public. In many cases its ignorance rather than anything else. If they fail to heed your warning then its your civic duty to inform the police particularly if as in this case children might be at risk.
