A light at the end of the tunnel

[kinaero]

...so I thought!
I've been making massive overpayment to my mortgage, and planned to have my mortgage cleared this year! Needless to say, I am still paying, due to various investment opportunities, house refurbishment, solar etc etc...

With my current financial status, i estimate my mortgage would be paid off just when my current E class lease run out in 2 years time! Yippee! So I could plan for my dream Morgan+8 or a 4 matic E63 AMG!! :bannana:

BUT! My son then dropped me a bombshell! He's currently in his final year studying economic at UCL, and he had applied to approx 100 companies for a position, even offering to work for free as an intern! Despite what I would considered his above average CV, No luck!

He said as last resort, he would want to carry on studying masters, then it dawn on me, this could cost me a further £50k for 2 years!!

As a father, I would support him 100%, but my selfish side says, please no, I don't want to extend my mortgage, and there's no guarantee for a job either!

I would appreciate any members advise/recommendation on what I should do

 

[markjay]

When you mention the equivalent of £25k a year, is this his living expenses? Surely the tuition fee alone is not that much?

 

[kinaero]

yes thats just the ball park figures, £25k living expenses in London including tuition fees.

 

[Giantvanman]

Break the son for parts and buy both cars

Seriously though, what a dilemma. My son couldn't find anything suitable in engineering so we had the choice; continue education or get any job, related or not.

He chose to get a job and is saving hard. He is also looking for suitable jobs. If nothing comes up, he will be able to part fund his own education.

However, the danger with getting a job is, as in my son's case, having worked for two years, he has got used to having money and felt the need to dispose of some it and buy his own car to replace the one I bought him.

At least he is still striving to better himself even if it isn't in the field of choice.

 

[abecketts]

have him home based taking a course from a different provider via correspondence, it might cut your expenses.

 

[kinaero]

Break the son for parts and buy both cars

Seriously though, what a dilemma. My son couldn't find anything suitable in engineering so we had the choice; continue education or get any job, related or not.

He chose to get a job and is saving hard. He is also looking for suitable jobs. If nothing comes up, he will be able to part fund his own education.

However, the danger with getting a job is, as in my son's case, having worked for two years, he has got used to having money and felt the need to dispose of some it and buy his own car to replace the one I bought him.

At least he is still striving to better himself even if it isn't in the field of choice.

Thats my fear, he could lose his focus, and my son knows that too. Not to mention he would have wasted his education.

I know a girl whose got a degree in Pharmacies, took a job as a cashier in a cash and carry, and she's been working there for 2 years now

 

[kinaero]

have him home based taking a course from a different provider via correspondence, it might cut your expenses.

I have actually suggested that idea to him, study in Manchester Uni, he said his friends advised him to stay in a decent uni, UCL or LSE

 

[Charles Morgan]

In my penultimate year at university I was encouraged to think about doing a Masters degree. I mentioned it to my father (this in the period when student fees were a lot less burdensome) and he said it was my choice, but having paid for my education since I was 7, it was down to me. I did my BA and was fortunate enough to get a job.

In a non-scientific field, I very much doubt a Masters will improve job prospects, in fact often the reverse - there is a subtle bias in many employers against those who appear too academic.

Not my judgement, but I would certainly suggest scrutinising all your son's applications with any friends etc in the fields he is applying for, and also think about other professions. I was very aware as a Mediaeval historian that the applicability of my degree course needed a lot of selling to potential employers. I used to interview for the graduate intake of my bank and we would get a lot of economics students apply. I am not saying that this is the case with your son, but far too many seemed to think that the mere fact of doing economics suited them entirely for a career in finance without any real attempt at selling themselves. They were probably the least differentiated applicants we had.

Getting into economics as a profession is probably one of the most competitive in the world.

 

[kinaero]

Thanks Charles Morgan, excellent advise, I will pass on your advise to my son.

He did once told me he's in a very competitive market!

 

[Alps]

I would tend to agree with Charles also, non scientific a masters will not add value and may even outskill you out of certain jobs, real world experience will count for alot more at this stage.

 

[kinaero]

I would tend to agree with Charles also, non scientific a masters will not add value and may even outskill you out of certain jobs, real world experience will count for alot more at this stage.

Unfortunately, real world experience he will not get until someone will take him on!

Classic case of catch 22

 

[neilrr]

I've got a cousin who decided to continue his education as he couldn't find anything to do job wise that interested him.

IIRC he now has a BA, 2 x MAs, a PhD & an MBA but sill no job. He's in his late 30's.

 

[kingdave]

I don't want to put your son off or insult him, but I can maybe point out some pitfalls he may or may not be falling into.

I have been in the financial services industry for 12 odd years now, things have changed a lot over that period. Much less grad hiring for one thing. I'm in IT but work closely with the graduate recruiting team.

If you're talking about the big firms, competition is extremely fierce. Virtually all of our graduate recruitment comes from the pool of interns from previous years. Applications for summer internship and work placement positions come in from across the globe and successful candidates are often able to demonstrate long term commitment to the firm, it's business and the job function.
In a 100 applications, how targeted can you be?

For example, for all these jobs has your son been able to prove his trajectory leads to the applied for position through initiatives taken outside study, demonstrable skills already gained, course choices in the degree program, previous work experience etc.

Odd things can put you out of the running, for example - it's hard to apply for an IT position at a bank with an economics degree. It's sometimes perceived that IT is an easy way in and the candidate will likely seek to migrate at the earliest opportunity to a finance focused position. IT depts are reluctant to hire people with their eye on a move before they even start. Obviously I'm not saying it's impossible, but like Charles M says marketing is a big part of making an application stick.

Good luck to you and him!

 

[AMGBlack]

I feel your pain.
My Daughter is doing a Degree at Oxford, and we are already talking about following up with a Masters or PHD as job prospects are rubbish.

We are treating it as way to maintain focus, interest and basically keeping her "employed" in education rather than either veg at home, or go down a path where the last few years have been almost a waste. Not ideal, but with too many people going to Uni, the market is flooded and hard to make a choice (as an employer too, I see too many). Therefore my decision to support her is based as much on keeping her focused and out of mischief!

Now onto the Masters verses PHD issues. My Wife completed a Masters (which has to be based on a practical process, not academic like a PHD). She had to form a limited company and “sell” products in her field with the research aspect added in. Not only did this open doors, but without a Masters she would not have got the job she has today (and earn a fortune!).

The debate of degree / Masters /PHD comes down to chance almost. If the job comes up and you fit (because as the others have said, they can sell themselves), then you will have more success. Sometimes when I employ people I am more interested in them, hobbies etc than the academic awards (as I would not interview them without), so I focus on them as people.

So, there is no one answer. You can either support and keep them in education or not. At the end of the day if they have a masters, phd or moon certificate, its up to them if they want to include it on a CV or job application in the first place. At least it allows some scope on applying for things.

Just some thoughts.

 

[Scott_F]

I have actually suggested that idea to him, study in Manchester Uni, he said his friends advised him to stay in a decent uni, UCL or LSE

His friends probably have little experience of life outside school or university. And it won't be them stumping up £50k.

Why don't you agree to fund the course but make it clear that when he is reaping the benefits and earning a decent salary (even though it may take several years) you will want a significant part of the money to be re-paid ?

 

[neilrr]

I have actually suggested that idea to him, study in Manchester Uni, he said his friends advised him to stay in a decent uni, UCL or LSE

Manchester is a decent university - Russell Group: Our Universities

University world reputation rankings 2014 - Telegraph

 

[abecketts]

I have actually suggested that idea to him, study in Manchester Uni, he said his friends advised him to stay in a decent uni, UCL or LSE

I think he's being picky and putting his social life ahead of his old man's wallet. Good uni's do exist in the north.

 

[kinaero]

His friends probably have little experience of life outside school or university. And it won't be them stumping up £50k.

Why don't you agree to fund the course but make it clear that when he is reaping the benefits and earning a decent salary (even though it may take several years) you will want a significant part of the money to be re-paid ?

He's a decent and sensible lad, or else I wouldn't even entertain the idea of funding him further!

My only hope is one day, he could support his own future family, and not struggled like I did!

I am not expecting any pay back, but it would be nice if he could stump up a sizeable deposit for whatever purchase I am making in future

 

[SportsCoupeRich]

I think there is more to be gained from a period of travelling (certainly as an employer I value it in my staff) than a masters. I didn't do an LLM after my LLB as I frankly didn't see what it could offer me to form a very narrow specialty, especially when I wanted to go into something as expansive as banking. 12 years on I do not regret the decision to not do the masters.

A year abroad, working the land of the less fortunate in Africa, or whatever, will cost less and bee seen as hugely beneficial to employers in large businesses (maturity, altruism etc).

As a last point - i struggle to see where i would have been better at my job with a masters. Graduate roles are designed for people to learn everything from the ground up...there simply isn't the opportunity to run before you can walk. Perhaps he can consider a masters in 7 years, with an idea of how he wants to focus his career going forwards. Then do it part-time or take a sabbatical.

 

[kinaero]

I think he's being picky and putting his social life ahead of his old man's wallet. Good uni's do exist in the north.

It is not quite like that, trust me.

I have already sent him the link to this thread yesterday, and he appreciated all the comments on here