EDZ649
MB Enthusiast
Very sad news, my sincere condolences.
st4
Banned
I am sorry to hear you've lost a friend in this terrible manner.
prprandall51
MB Enthusiast
I am truly sorry to hear about the death of your friend but, Wow, that's a pretty aggressive post. You are having a pop at AndyK but all he was doing was responding to your quite frankly bizarre first post, which was really a bit of a tease. I appreciate you are upset by the incident, but why not look back at your post and then it may be clearer why Andy responded as he did.
As you do appear to have all the facts, why not let us know a few of them so we can truly understand the lesson you are trying to communicate to us. Otherwise your first post just looks like a sanctimonious lecture, which I for one, didn't feel I needed.
I think the old saying ' Never speak ill of the dead ' applies here .
No matter what the circumstances might have been , good manners and normal human decency render any sorts of adverse comment inappropriate - IMHO .
No matter what the circumstances might have been , good manners and normal human decency render any sorts of adverse comment inappropriate - IMHO .
OP
OP
flango
Hardcore MB Enthusiast
I'll be quite honest here I'm not going to get into a debate on this one but will make some final comments. I have reveiwed my OP which I thought long and hard about before posting, I dont feel it is a santimonious lecture at all neither is it bizarre or a tease. The point of the post was a reminder of what can happen when things go tragically wrong, If just one person has read that post and it has made them think about their driving and possible consequences then it has achieved what I orignially intended it to do and that is promote road safety.
There is no way I am going to post the details on a public forum out of decency and respect.
As for being agressive, no not my style at all I was merely pointing out that people make judement calls and pass opinion without knowing the facts. A good rule in life is "if you don't know the facts keep your opinions to yourself" If you do know the facts then there is nothing wrong with good healthy debate of which we have seen some excellent examples on this forum.
Sorry if you feel I was being agressive or sanctimonious, but those out there that know me will tell you, you could not be further from the truth.
prprandall51
MB Enthusiast
But what lesson are we able to take from this thread out on to the road and benefit from (since your opening thread clearly implied there is a lesson to learn)?
Perhaps your friend swerved to avoid a car coming the other way on his side of the road. That would be a valuable lesson if we were able to discuss on the forum the various avoidance techniques in such a situation (which I genuinely believe people like you and Pononeer and others would have valuable commentary upon).
Perhaps he slid on some diesel.
Perhaps he hit a deer.
Perhaps, perhaps, perhaps. You clearly know what happened but why would sharing that on a forum be a breach of decency or respect? If your friend is truly the innocent victim of happenstance, then I am sure his family would want the cautionary tale told wide and far.
To be honest, your reticence carries the implication that your friend was in some way at fault. Which is also fine (heaven knows, I have had enough accidents that are my fault in my time), but without the facts, this thread isn't adding up to much.
Perhaps your friend swerved to avoid a car coming the other way on his side of the road. That would be a valuable lesson if we were able to discuss on the forum the various avoidance techniques in such a situation (which I genuinely believe people like you and Pononeer and others would have valuable commentary upon).
Perhaps he slid on some diesel.
Perhaps he hit a deer.
Perhaps, perhaps, perhaps. You clearly know what happened but why would sharing that on a forum be a breach of decency or respect? If your friend is truly the innocent victim of happenstance, then I am sure his family would want the cautionary tale told wide and far.
To be honest, your reticence carries the implication that your friend was in some way at fault. Which is also fine (heaven knows, I have had enough accidents that are my fault in my time), but without the facts, this thread isn't adding up to much.
OP
OP
flango
Hardcore MB Enthusiast
As I said I'm not going to enter into a debate and if you have not spotted the lesson to take to the road from my posts then I doubt further discussion will make it any clearer.
If you feel this thread is not adding up to much then fine thats your opinion I have said as much as I am going to say on the incident. So if your opinion is the general concensus of the other people that have posted in this thread that too is also fine, we'll call it a day draw a line under it and I'll ask one of the mods to close the thead.
Some days I hate this forum. Today is one such day. A poster has lost someone who he knew, so those of us with an IQ above 10 realise that is a sad and difficult emotion to deal with. On occasions like this one tends to want to hang on to and protect those around you and to say to them and the world "Take care". We are reminded of our fragility and mortality and are reminded that life won't always be as it is now. Flanaia obviously felt that and posted "Take care". Instead of taking heed and understanding his sentiment the forum decends into "picking bones mode". If this is how we behaved in real life on a face to face basis with those who are mourning then I despair.
Flanaia, I'm sorry about your friend and will try to remember to "Take care". I don't need to know anymore or comment anymore and I sorry this day has probably been made a bit worse by this forum.
Flanaia, I'm sorry about your friend and will try to remember to "Take care". I don't need to know anymore or comment anymore and I sorry this day has probably been made a bit worse by this forum.
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corned
MB Enthusiast
I have been watching this thread since it appeared, and I really want to pass some comment on it.
Firstly, the thread itself. I know what R2D2 is saying. This is not the only web forum to which I subscribe, and the other one (aviation related) is every bit the same in some respects. The diversity of personality is immense, and no two viewpoints ever seem to be the same. This can be an extremely positive thing, and thankfully on the whole it is, but it goes with the territory that sometimes things come a little unstuck. So we have to endure the less positive aspects as well as enjoy the positive ones.
This thread happens to have exposed both poles of opinion.
Anyway - back on thread. Ian. Although I don't know you, other than a few PMs exchanged, I very much appreciate that you did post in the first place. It cannot have been at all easy for you, to say the very least, and I offer my condolences to you and your friend's family. I haven't lost family or friends in this manner, so I can't hope to know what it is like to have to deal with. I choose to take a positive message away from your OP, in that taking a little bit of extra care and vigilance could go a long way at some unknown point in the future. Who knows what is around the next corner?
As it happens, on the news last night was a story of some youths who lost control of their car near Derby last year and had hit an oncoming vehicle, killing two of themselves and one of the oncoming occupants. As the surviving youths are looking at hefty custodial sentences, I can only assume they were fooling about and/or racing. Whether or not that little bit of extra awareness could have saved the oncoming people, who is to say? But I really thought about your post during that news article.
I never really think about my own mortality. I believe I am fairly aware of what is going on around me, but as you say - there is always room for a little bit more thought.
What I do always do, is think about my wife and kids, particularly at the moment because my wife's grandma is quite ill and my wife has been spending a lot of time going up and down the M1 up to Sheffield to visit, several times each week. Often, because I am working, she takes the kids with her. I always have that brief passing thought - will I see them again?
And there's no answer to that.
Firstly, the thread itself. I know what R2D2 is saying. This is not the only web forum to which I subscribe, and the other one (aviation related) is every bit the same in some respects. The diversity of personality is immense, and no two viewpoints ever seem to be the same. This can be an extremely positive thing, and thankfully on the whole it is, but it goes with the territory that sometimes things come a little unstuck. So we have to endure the less positive aspects as well as enjoy the positive ones.
This thread happens to have exposed both poles of opinion.
Anyway - back on thread. Ian. Although I don't know you, other than a few PMs exchanged, I very much appreciate that you did post in the first place. It cannot have been at all easy for you, to say the very least, and I offer my condolences to you and your friend's family. I haven't lost family or friends in this manner, so I can't hope to know what it is like to have to deal with. I choose to take a positive message away from your OP, in that taking a little bit of extra care and vigilance could go a long way at some unknown point in the future. Who knows what is around the next corner?
As it happens, on the news last night was a story of some youths who lost control of their car near Derby last year and had hit an oncoming vehicle, killing two of themselves and one of the oncoming occupants. As the surviving youths are looking at hefty custodial sentences, I can only assume they were fooling about and/or racing. Whether or not that little bit of extra awareness could have saved the oncoming people, who is to say? But I really thought about your post during that news article.
I never really think about my own mortality. I believe I am fairly aware of what is going on around me, but as you say - there is always room for a little bit more thought.
What I do always do, is think about my wife and kids, particularly at the moment because my wife's grandma is quite ill and my wife has been spending a lot of time going up and down the M1 up to Sheffield to visit, several times each week. Often, because I am working, she takes the kids with her. I always have that brief passing thought - will I see them again?
And there's no answer to that.
EDZ649
MB Enthusiast
Perhaps these things should be posted in an area where others cannot reply and just leave thanks if they find it useful. Hopefully that will avoid any bad feeling between members. Just a thought......
glojo
Hardcore MB Enthusiast
I like Andy and when folks meet him, he is not the person that comes across in some of his posts.
flanaia1 is also a very good friend and he is obviously close to the driver of this car. My thoughts are that we should all be passing on our condolences and perhaps keeping our observations to ourselves?
The police are asking for any witnesses who may have seen this tragic event, or perhaps seen the car just prior to the incident.
Police want to hear from anyone who may have seen the collision or the car travelling towards Ipswich beforehand.
Calls in relation to this incident should be made to PC Paul Carr at the Serious Collision Investigation Team on 01473 613500.
Alternatively call Crimestoppers, anonymously, on 0800 555 111.
If anyone wants a rope to hang Andy then please send me a pm
flanaia1 is also a very good friend and he is obviously close to the driver of this car. My thoughts are that we should all be passing on our condolences and perhaps keeping our observations to ourselves?
The police are asking for any witnesses who may have seen this tragic event, or perhaps seen the car just prior to the incident.
Police want to hear from anyone who may have seen the collision or the car travelling towards Ipswich beforehand.
Calls in relation to this incident should be made to PC Paul Carr at the Serious Collision Investigation Team on 01473 613500.
Alternatively call Crimestoppers, anonymously, on 0800 555 111.
If anyone wants a rope to hang Andy then please send me a pm
OP
OP
flango
Hardcore MB Enthusiast
No bad feeling from me I'm not that type of person I'll have my say then as far as I'm concerned its done and forgotten. I dont bear grudges at all, lifes too short.
OP
OP
flango
Hardcore MB Enthusiast
Maserati's aren't Euro NCAP tested also not subject to the USA NCAP testing regime.
LimitedSlip
Active Member
- Joined
- Jun 23, 2009
- Messages
- 167
I can certainly empathize if not directly sympathize flanaia, I've been there like other posters, on several occasions, both friends and family.
In a now very technical, monitored and over-assessed world where there is assumed always a reason, that something or someone is always culpable, that something must always be changed or "learned" as a result... we are human. There are sometimes unfortunate accidents.
To those that feel the need to speculate whilst knowing nothing of what happened; burst tyre? Animal in the road? Sudden debilitating pain for the driver? Lapse of concentration? Shame on you for defaulting to the old chestnut of assuming excessive speed in your brainwashing, whether it later proves the case or not. We are nowhere near as dangerous as certain interests would have us believe.
These things sadly occcasionally happen, as part of the price of travel and the freedom and facility it brings. Sometimes it happens to the best, whilst never visiting the worst. It will never be eliminated beyond a certain point. Why are people so obsessed with blame?
Best to just remind ourselves to try to keep up our own standards.
In a now very technical, monitored and over-assessed world where there is assumed always a reason, that something or someone is always culpable, that something must always be changed or "learned" as a result... we are human. There are sometimes unfortunate accidents.
To those that feel the need to speculate whilst knowing nothing of what happened; burst tyre? Animal in the road? Sudden debilitating pain for the driver? Lapse of concentration? Shame on you for defaulting to the old chestnut of assuming excessive speed in your brainwashing, whether it later proves the case or not. We are nowhere near as dangerous as certain interests would have us believe.
These things sadly occcasionally happen, as part of the price of travel and the freedom and facility it brings. Sometimes it happens to the best, whilst never visiting the worst. It will never be eliminated beyond a certain point. Why are people so obsessed with blame?
Best to just remind ourselves to try to keep up our own standards.
andy_k
MB Enthusiast
Oh dear, looks like I started a fight 
Ian, I offered your friend's family my sympathy, that was genuine.
I also commented that I know that stretch of road ,it's a stinker and there are many, many accidents on that particular bit of tarmac every month (never mind year). A quick internet check will confirm a whole heap of accidents resulting in the speed limits being reduced by the local council in some sort of attempt to reduce the number of fatalities
I agree it's truly awful that your friend has become just another statistic on a piece of road that is notororius and a 'genuine black spot'.
If as you say you aware of all the facts (ie you were there as a witness) you should follow the link in Johns' post and contact Pc Carr as it seems from the various web reports that he is keen to hear any information.
If my posts caused any offence I apologise but please don't lecture me saying what a good driver your friend was and how we should all take care because things do occassionally go horribly wrong without backing it up with cold hard facts - in the last 12 months I have driven along that particulat stretch of road about 15 times, a friend of mine who lives nearby drives along it every day. Neither of us have been involved in an accident although we have both seen many
We are all capable of making mistakes, misjudging the road or the conditions. It's also entirly possible (despite what certain people have posted) that tragic accidents happen.
Again if anything I've said offended you then I apologise but please bear in mind that if you post anything on an internet forum it is open to comment by anybody whether they agree with your point of view it not.
Ian, I offered your friend's family my sympathy, that was genuine.
I also commented that I know that stretch of road ,it's a stinker and there are many, many accidents on that particular bit of tarmac every month (never mind year). A quick internet check will confirm a whole heap of accidents resulting in the speed limits being reduced by the local council in some sort of attempt to reduce the number of fatalities
I agree it's truly awful that your friend has become just another statistic on a piece of road that is notororius and a 'genuine black spot'.
If as you say you aware of all the facts (ie you were there as a witness) you should follow the link in Johns' post and contact Pc Carr as it seems from the various web reports that he is keen to hear any information.
If my posts caused any offence I apologise but please don't lecture me saying what a good driver your friend was and how we should all take care because things do occassionally go horribly wrong without backing it up with cold hard facts - in the last 12 months I have driven along that particulat stretch of road about 15 times, a friend of mine who lives nearby drives along it every day. Neither of us have been involved in an accident although we have both seen many
We are all capable of making mistakes, misjudging the road or the conditions. It's also entirly possible (despite what certain people have posted) that tragic accidents happen.
Again if anything I've said offended you then I apologise but please bear in mind that if you post anything on an internet forum it is open to comment by anybody whether they agree with your point of view it not.
OP
OP
flango
Hardcore MB Enthusiast
Thanks for the condolences & Sympathy. No fight at all it just really P's me off when people make judgements or pass opinions without knowing the facts.
I am in possesion of the facts because if you read the report there was a second person in the car who only suffered minor injuries and can recount every millisecond of what happened that terrible afternoon, the police want further evidence to coroborate that version of events.
I have no problems with people challenging or disagreeing with the OP but speculating and then debating a fantasy version of the event they have created is something totally different.
No lectures at all, I've driven that road probably over 20 times this year myself and never had an accident either, but there is no such thing as a dangerous road (see post #14)
Take away from this thread what you will but for me it has made me think, this so shortly after the visit to Strathclyde RPU where they told us of the horrors they encounter at accident scenes makes me realise even more I want to get home to my wife and daughter on an evening in one piece.
The message is still the same "Please stay safe out there"
I am in possesion of the facts because if you read the report there was a second person in the car who only suffered minor injuries and can recount every millisecond of what happened that terrible afternoon, the police want further evidence to coroborate that version of events.
I have no problems with people challenging or disagreeing with the OP but speculating and then debating a fantasy version of the event they have created is something totally different.
No lectures at all, I've driven that road probably over 20 times this year myself and never had an accident either, but there is no such thing as a dangerous road (see post #14)
Take away from this thread what you will but for me it has made me think, this so shortly after the visit to Strathclyde RPU where they told us of the horrors they encounter at accident scenes makes me realise even more I want to get home to my wife and daughter on an evening in one piece.
The message is still the same "Please stay safe out there"
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