Active Cornering lights

[glojo]

And a single fog light is perfecly legal btw:

Hi Bill,
Thanks for the link, and this is all 'new' legislation to me.

Could you possibly please point out where it states that ONE fog light, headlight, or spotlight is indeed legal on a four wheeled motor car? I am again NOT disagreeing I am merely trying to educate myself.


Interesting debate but I am sure EU legislation is different to UK regarding this very specific topic. Headlights being permanently switched on might be statutory in some countries but not required in others?

 

[BTB 500]

Could you possibly please point out where it states that ONE fog light, headlight, or spotlight is indeed legal on a four wheeled motor car? I am again NOT disagreeing I am merely trying to educate myself.

Hi John,

First of all the link I posted was only for front fog lights. Item 1 defines the number of such lights allowed.

(b) A motor vehicle, other than a motor bicycle or motor bicycle combination, first used on or after 1st April 1991: Not more than two

So none, one, or two are fine if your car is April '91 onwards.

(a) Any vehicle not covered by sub-paragraph (b): No requirement

Older cars can have any number of front fog lights!

 

[glojo]

Hi John,

First of all the link I posted was only for front fog lights. Item 1 defines the number of such lights allowed.So none, one, or two are fine if your car is April '91 onwards.

Older cars can have any number of front fog lights!

Hi Bill
I read the link and to me it is very grey simply because it states not more than two, I agree with what your saying, but I have learnt over the years NEVER to read into something that is not actually there.

Any number of cars have only one rear foglight

I am NOT being pedantic and I understand where your coming from.

Has anyone ever seen a mass produced car fitted with just ONE front fog light.

I believe the old Rover or similar was once built with a centre fitted headlight??

John

 

[BTB 500]

Yup, in the 'old days' it was quite common to have two auxiliary lights on the front of the car - a spot (driving) light on the offside, and a fog light on the nearside.

The suggestion here was that having only one light lit somehow meant it wasn't a fog light any more. "Not more than two" isn't grey, it means that one (or none) is quite OK.

The rules for headlights say "Two", which is equally unambiguous!

http://www.opsi.gov.uk/si/si1989/Uksi_19891796_en_9.htm#nsch4

 

[fuzzer]

i cannot believe we have reached onto page 2 with this thread

 

[BTB 500]

So, have you seen any good number plates recently?

 

[glojo]

"Not more than two" isn't grey, it means that one (or none) is quite OK.

Agreed

So, have you seen any good number plates recently?

John

 

[219]

I can remember reading somewhere ( many years ago , so now I can't remember where I read it ) that the legal definition of a foglamp is "any lamp the centre of which is less than (can't remember the exact distance) from the road surface" .

The distance would have been something of the order of 400-500mm or 18" or thereabouts , effectively meaning that , as far as the law is concerned , any lamp mounted below the bumper of most 'normal' cars is regarded as a fog lamp and may only be used - quote "when visibility is reduced to less than 100m by fog or falling snow" .

The reasoning behind this was that light emitted from lamps so close to the road surface would have a near horizontal beam and could strike a reflective road surface at such a shallow angle of incidence so as to reflect back and dazzle oncoming drivers over a considerable distance . Lamps mounted higher are aimed well below the horizontal thus reflecting back at a somewhat more acute angle and do not dazzle over such a range .

This definition took no regard of the type of beam output by the lamp so the 'foglamps' built into the headlamp nacelles of most Mercedes cars from the 1970s onwards (and many other cars) which were at the same hieght above the road as the headlamps could legally be used anytime while 'driving lamps' or spotlamps mounted below the specified hieght could not ; this conundrum was oft discussed in the motoring magazines of the time.

It is interesting that the phrase 'by fog or falling snow' was also specified , thus preventing the use of foglamps in heavy rain , for example , when glare can be a big problem - especially following a foglamp festooned car at night with red blotches becoming etched into your retina !

Strictly speaking , it would also be unlawful to turn on foglamps when driving with visibility impaired by thick smoke (as often happens in my line of work) , even though most people would regard it as eminently sensible to do so ( along with a commensurate reduction in speed ) : just goes to show that the law really is an ASS sometimes !

BTW. There have been numerous cars with centrally mounted headlamps , the 'Rover Cyclops' is possibly the best known ; the Tucker Torpedo of the 1940s had a pair of conventional headlamps plus a central one that turned with the steering ! Very early cars from Edwardian and Victorian times had only a single stop and tail lamp too !

 

[bibamus]

The laws on the use of foglamps have been around for some time, and I agree that sometimes, these rules are open to a bit of interpretation ( like almost every other law in the land, hence, solicitors and barristers make a huge amount of money interpreting the law as they would like to see it work for their client, almost every day) The Police are ( generally) not so stupid as to take the letter of the law and apply it without using some sort of discretion where it allows, hence, the use of adaptive cornering lights would be accepted as a feature of the car.
The law also states that front and rear fog lamps should only be used in conditions of fog or falling snow or seriously reduced visibility. Seriously reduced visibility means what it says on the tin, hence heavy rain and smoke would fall into this category, and use of foglights would be correct.
Causing smoke to blow over a road and case seriously reduced visibility would be the offence here!
Most importantly, it is important that they are turned off as soon as visibility improves. This might mean switching them on and off many times during a journey if necessary. Front and rear fog lamps are designed to be seen in reduced visibility and will dazzle other road users in normal conditions. It is an offence to use fog lamps in normal visibility conditions and drivers who continually use their fog lamps, because it is considered by some to be fashionable, could be prosecuted for driving without due consideration for other road users.

My favourite way of dealing with people using foglights incorrectly ( if the opportunity arose) was to prosecute the ones I saw that had one foglamp not lit while the other was working, as it was an offence not to have all lights working if they were fitted and in use.

Theres more than one way to catch a monkey! ( or should that be, `skin a rabbit!`

Allan

 

[R2D2]

Auto Express Official Answer!

Following our lengthy debate regarding Mercedes Fog Lights being used as Active cornering lights I wrote to Auto Express.

The item was picked by their features editor Mat Watson who ran with it.

Today I got his reply:

Hi Greg

I spoke to ACPO about the lights and they said:

Further to the below, please see attached document from the office of Med
Hughes, Chief Constable of South Yorkshire Police, and ACPO lead for Roads
Policing. The bottom line is that Mercedes' lights are legal as, while
utilising the fog light bulb, they do so at a lower output.


Hope this clears up the matter for you.

Cheers

Mat Watson
Features Editor


Big thankyou to Mat at Auto Express for getting the answer from the powers that be.

 

[glojo]

Following our lengthy debate regarding Mercedes Fog Lights being used as Active cornering lights I wrote to Auto Express.

Well done,
So does the electronics cut the power for turning, or is there a second bulb? It certainly sounds technical.

John

 

[R2D2]

I believe it cuts the power which would be easy as it fades in and fades out anyway.

 

[BTB 500]

Do these lights stay on for a while after going round the corner? Had a new-looking R171 coming towards me last night on a straight stretch of road with headlights on and nearside front fog ablaze (it was about 7:30 PM and completely clear conditions ). He might have come off a roundabout approx 75 yds back though.