Advice regarding driving to France and Switzerland

[BTB 500]

obviously the satnav isn't accurate either (due to reduced accuracy for non-military use)

AFAIK that's not the case any more and GPS accuracy is determined purely by receiver design - principally dual-frequency versus single-frequency. The former has been used by the military for some time, but it's increasingly common in consumer devices like smartphones and smart watches now.

 

[markjay]

AFAIK that's not the case any more and GPS accuracy is determined purely by receiver design - principally dual-frequency versus single-frequency. The former has been used by the military for some time, but it's increasingly common in consumer devices like smartphones and smart watches now.

Thanks. Since I was using the satnav app via Android Auto, the car's GPS roof antenna wasn't being used, instead the satnav was using the built-in GPS receiver inside the phone, and the phone was located inside the car, which I assume meant low accuracy?

 

[Bobby Dazzler]

Sounds interesting ... that would be a 35 kWh battery then (assuming the chemistry supports charging at full rate the whole time).



Will that range increase be achieved by doubling the battery size, or by some drivetrain magic? The former would require a 700 kW charger of course.

I've said several times that we are due another leap in battery technology as Li cells have been in widespread use for 30 years now. There have been some promising ideas but none have yet delivered in real life. Hopefully this one will be the exception (and it would be great if it was safer than Li Ion, too ).

I can’t say any more than this, however the doubling of range is achieved by a larger battery pack with the same charging time. There’s some very clever new stuff which enables it.

The design and chemistry of the battery is indeed a little different, as it allows full speed charging at both ends, when near empty and near full, with minimal degradation and fewer losses.

I’m fairly confident this will make it through to production, I really hope so.

 

[MikeInWimbledon]

You don't need a fast charger, if you're happy to hang around waiting. But you're very likely to need a charger of some sort.
Have you been reading this thread?

340 miles, so let's say a need for an extra 150 miles needed to top up the range.

On a conventional 50kwh charger that's a 45 minute top up, as opposed to 15 minutes on a 150kwh charger.

A useful warning for those of us who routinely drive 350 miles in a day, without taking a coffee, pee or shopping break.

 

[markjay]

A useful warning for those of us who routinely drive 350 miles in a day, without taking a coffee, pee or shopping break.

On one hand, I have no doubt that adjustments will have to be made when driving an EV on a journey that takes it beyond its initial battery capacity, I.e. charging planning, route planning (perhaps finding a longer route with faster chargers along the way, etc), and obviously the charging stops themselves, which undoubtedly will be less convenient than the current situation with ICE cars. But on the other hand, in reality none of these adjustments are too onerous, and motorists will get used to them quite quickly.

 

[MikeInWimbledon]

That will probably be because few people need to charge at all when going out to get groceries. Plus of course nobody is currently buying BEVs.

Wake up at the back there !

One million BEV's on British roads.

Most new company cars have plug:

A third of a million new BEV's sold in 2023.

85,000 BEV's sold in Q1 2024.

(All these numbers exclude the plug in hybrid vehicles which also "could use" commercial chargers - although obviously most owners just charge at home or work.)

BMW, Hyundai, Kia and MG are selling in large numbers.

If you get out more - maybe drive 340 miles a day on British motorways - you'll find yourself surrounded by BEV's

 

[23 Romeo Tango]

I keep dropping in hoping to get some advice on driving to France and Switzerland.

 

[BTB 500]

340 miles, so let's say a need for an extra 150 miles needed to top up the range.

On a conventional 50kwh charger that's a 45 minute top up, as opposed to 15 minutes on a 150kwh charger.

A useful warning for those of us who routinely drive 350 miles in a day, without taking a coffee, pee or shopping break.

Or far more likely drive 170 miles to somewhere you'd be able to drink coffee/pee/shop to your heart's content (but not charge a car) before coming home.

 

[BTB 500]

Wake up at the back there !

One million BEV's on British roads.

So they've been on sale in the UK for 20 years now and make up about 2.4% of the total. Impressive.

 

[markjay]

So they've been on sale in the UK for 20 years now and make up about 2.4% of the total. Impressive.

Unless you include hybrids like the Prius in the 'EV' list, then Nissan Leaf was introduced in 2010 and Tesla in 2014 (UK market).

What happened since, is that (a) the technology gradually improved, (b) prices came down in relative terms as result of the introduction of more marques and more choice, (c) the charging infrastructure has improved, and (d) tax incentives were introduced for business customers.

So, realistically, I'd look at EV uptake over the past 5 years to get a better view of this sector, not 20 years.

 

[BTB 500]

Unless you include hybrids like the Prius in the 'EV' list, then Nissan Leaf was introduced in 2010 and Tesla in 2014 (UK market).

What happened since, is that (a) the technology gradually improved, (b) prices came down in relative terms as result of the introduction of more marques and more choice, (c) the charging infrastructure has improved, and (d) tax incentives were introduced for business customers.

So, realistically, I'd look at EV uptake over the past 5 years to get a better view of this sector, not 20 years.

I was thinking of the Tesla Roadster as the first, but I agree I got the timeline wrong

With BEVs making up such a tiny percentage now though you really aren't "surrounded by them", as suggested. And sales are currently in decline.

 

[markjay]

L

With BEVs making up such a tiny percentage now though you really aren't "surrounded by them", as suggested. And sales are currently in decline.

This decline now looks more like a blip in 2023, from which the market appears to be recovering this year:

"In January, BEV’s YoY market share grew from 13.1% to 14.7% (although this falls slightly short of the full 2023 market share of 16.5%)."
From:

Electric car statistics – EV market insights 2024

In 2022, more than 265,000 fully-electric cars were registered in the UK. Read our guide to the latest EV market trends in 2023 for more insights and commentary.

www.webuyanycar.com

See also:

How many EVs are there in the UK - EV market statistics 2024 - Zapmap

Find out how many electric vehicles there are in the UK, from pure-electric cars to PHEVs and electric vans.

www.zap-map.com

 

[Neiltodd]

This is all chargers from 100 kW (not 150 kW) upwards, from Zapmap:

View attachment 155862

Some of the main routes appear to be quite well served but there are sizeable gaps if you zoom in.

There are a lot of high speed chargers in/around big cities ... e.g. London:

View attachment 155863

Birmingham:

View attachment 155864

Manchester:

View attachment 155865

Just as example the nearest main route to us is the A41, which takes traffic from the M6/M54 up towards Liverpool and North Wales. There isn't a single 100+ kW charger on this road, although you could divert to a McDonalds near Market Drayton which has 2 chargers (both 50 / 120 kW):

View attachment 155866

Not v good if you live where I do, have to stick to ICE for a bit especially as I have 2 trips next week of 444 miles which I plan on doing without stopping.

 

[BTB 500]

This decline now looks more like a blip in 2023, from which the market appears to be recovering this year:

"In January, BEV’s YoY market share grew from 13.1% to 14.7% (although this falls slightly short of the full 2023 market share of 16.5%)."
From:

Electric car statistics – EV market insights 2024

In 2022, more than 265,000 fully-electric cars were registered in the UK. Read our guide to the latest EV market trends in 2023 for more insights and commentary.

www.webuyanycar.com

See also:

How many EVs are there in the UK - EV market statistics 2024 - Zapmap

Find out how many electric vehicles there are in the UK, from pure-electric cars to PHEVs and electric vans.

www.zap-map.com

I don't think so. Many Q1 2024 BEV sales figures are down:

• VW reports Q1 global ICE sales up 4% and BEV sales down 3%. BEV sales in Europe down 24%, partially offset by strong growth in China.
• MB reports 8% drop in EV sales.
• Tesla also reports sales down by 8%.
• BMW reports EV sales up by 28% though!
• Production of petrol Fiat Panda extended from 2027 to 2030.
• The EU has now frozen emissions targets and is considering delaying the ICE ban to allow use of synthetic fuels.

Volkswagen electric car sales plunge as Europe returns to petrol

Demand for EVs falls by 24pc amid high energy prices and rollback of subsidies

www.telegraph.co.uk

 

[clk320x]

Just as example the nearest main route to us is the A41, which takes traffic from the M6/M54 up towards Liverpool and North Wales. There isn't a single 100+ kW charger on this road, although you could divert to a McDonalds near Market Drayton which has 2 chargers (both 50 / 120 kW):

Between the M54 junction you’ve shown and Ellesmere Port is a distance of just 56 miles, so you could just top up before, or after the stretch.

or in your case, you’d start from home with 200+ miles in the ‘tank’…

This is literally a non-issue, 54 miles is nothing… and as you said yourself there are still some rapids half way if absolutely desperate, but any decent car would just route you to a charger before or after.

 

[clk320x]

Not v good if you live where I do, have to stick to ICE for a bit especially as I have 2 trips next week of 444 miles which I plan on doing without stopping.

444 miles return or one way? Are you coming down south?

 

[markjay]

Not v good if you live where I do, have to stick to ICE for a bit especially as I have 2 trips next week of 444 miles which I plan on doing without stopping.

Assuming a mixture of A roads and motorways, your average speed will probably be around 60mph overall, that's nearly 8 hours of non-stop driving - why on earth would you want to do that??? If you were a professional driver this would even be illegal. At any rate, even assuming that this is indeed your plan, I'd hazard a guess that there aren't too many people around who occasionally must drive for 8 hours without the option to stop along the way.

 

[MikeInWimbledon]

I was thinking of the Tesla Roadster as the first, but I agree I got the timeline wrong

With BEVs making up such a tiny percentage now though you really aren't "surrounded by them", as suggested. And sales are currently in decline.

You should try driving on Britain’s motorways.

 

[MikeInWimbledon]

I don't think so. Many Q1 2024 BEV sales figures are down:

• VW reports Q1 global ICE sales up 4% and BEV sales down 3%. BEV sales in Europe down 24%, partially offset by strong growth in China.
• MB reports 8% drop in EV sales.
• Tesla also reports sales down by 8%.
• BMW reports EV sales up by 28% though!
• Production of petrol Fiat Panda extended from 2027 to 2030.
• The EU has now frozen emissions targets and is considering delaying the ICE ban to allow use of synthetic fuels.

Volkswagen electric car sales plunge as Europe returns to petrol

Demand for EVs falls by 24pc amid high energy prices and rollback of subsidies

www.telegraph.co.uk

Oh dear. Not very good with stats are we?

BEV sales continue to rise, as required by EU legislation, which will fine manufacturers to failing to increase their sales.

Across the board, European and Chinese products are driving the growth. That Tesla, VW and Mercedes have been underperforming is neither here nor there. You can can’t expect every manufacturer to be increasing volumes in such a rapidly growing market.

 

[clk320x]

You should try driving on Britain’s motorways.

Perhaps this is because most anti-EV folk tend to live rurally? Driving up and down the M1 regularly I see so many EVs nowadays.

The irony is, if you live super rurally an EV would be ideal as finding a petrol station is a challenge is super remote places - where as your home would become a 24/7 fuel station.