Advice regarding driving to France and Switzerland

[markjay]

It's probably an ICE versus EV thing. If you're used to taking the most direct / fastest route from A to B with no question of ever running out of 'fuel' then taking a less direct route and having to stop periodically when you wouldn't have done so previously doesn't exactly seem like progress.

Perhaps if you're taking a leisurely drive (off on holiday etc.) it's no big deal, but Mrs BTB was out from 05:30 till 22:00 yesterday (and had another early start today) so the last thing she'd have wanted was to add an extra hour or two to her day in diversions plus charging time.

At least if you have fast chargers on the direct route (as seemed to be the case for you in France) you minimise the delays.

So we need more fast chargers... at least on that we can agree

 

[Bobby Dazzler]

So they've been on sale in the UK for 20 years now and make up about 2.4% of the total. Impressive.

It naturally takes time for change of this type to happen, for example a quick Google search suggests that there are 300 hydrogen fuelled cars in the UK, and that they generally went on sale 10 years ago.

 

[Bobby Dazzler]

Is suspect more fast chargers will come when the utilisation of the fast chargers we already have increases.

 

[Bobby Dazzler]

The A41 looks fairly well served for fast chargers to me - this route shows only fast chargers between RAF Cosforf and Cheshire Oaks, ie the A41.



My dinky little 500e would do that easily.

Even the £1500 Nissan Leaf referred to recently on MBClub - with a decade old degraded battery - could also manage it without drama.

 

[BTB 500]

The A41 looks fairly well served for fast chargers to me - this route shows only fast chargers between RAF Cosforf and Cheshire Oaks, ie the A41.

OK, possibly a terminology thing. The government report I quoted originally considers 150 kW or above to be a fast charger i.e. one suited for a rapid partial top-up en route.

I'm using Zapmap and filtering on 100 kW plus with public access (not all sites are public e.g. some Porsche dealerships have chargers for Porsche EVs only).

Checking the first two on your image the bottom one is shown as not having public access (it's at a fire station) and only being 7.2 kW, and the next one up only has 50/60 kW chargers.

 

[clk320x]

OK, possibly a terminology thing. The government report I quoted originally considers 150 kW or above to be a fast charger i.e. one suited for a rapid partial top-up en route.

I'm using Zapmap and filtering on 100 kW plus with public access (not all sites are public e.g. some Porsche dealerships have chargers for Porsche EVs only).

Checking the first two on your image the bottom one is shown as not having public access (it's at a fire station) and only being 7.2 kW, and the next one up only has 50/60 kW chargers.

View attachment 155916

10 or 15 mins on a 60kW charger would still get you up to the M56 again - if for some reason the car routing failed and didn’t take you via an earlier 150/250kW unit and hence you were absolutely desperate. Not ideal but not a massive inconvenience.

 

[markjay]

OK, possibly a terminology thing. The government report I quoted originally considers 150 kW or above to be a fast charger i.e. one suited for a rapid partial top-up en route.

I'm using Zapmap and filtering on 100 kW plus with public access (not all sites are public e.g. some Porsche dealerships have chargers for Porsche EVs only).

Checking the first two on your image the bottom one is shown as not having public access (it's at a fire station) and only being 7.2 kW, and the next one up only has 50/60 kW chargers.

View attachment 155916

A 50kW charger will be sufficient for a quick top-up along the route in most cases.

A 15 minutes charge at 50kW will add between 30 and 50 miles, depending on the vehicle and environmental conditions.

That's fine as a 'range extender' for (say) a 200-250 run where you want to get to your destination with some reserve.

But it won't do if you're planning on covering 300+ miles of motorway driving in a day.

 

[Bobby Dazzler]

OK, possibly a terminology thing. The government report I quoted originally considers 150 kW or above to be a fast charger i.e. one suited for a rapid partial top-up en route.

I'm using Zapmap and filtering on 100 kW plus with public access (not all sites are public e.g. some Porsche dealerships have chargers for Porsche EVs only).

Checking the first two on your image the bottom one is shown as not having public access (it's at a fire station) and only being 7.2 kW, and the next one up only has 50/60 kW chargers.

View attachment 155916

Assuming that the EV has n question can the full advantage of charging at 60 kW, and starts charging with less than 80% charge then for every minute it’s hooked up it will receive 1 kW of charge, which ought to allow a relatively easy 4 miles of driving in normal conditions at 4 mi/kW.

A quick 15 minute top-up would offer 60 miles which is equivalent to the journey from RAF Cosford to Cheshire Oaks. Let’s assume the battery is almost flat, it’s -10 deg C and snowing at night, and the charging rate isn’t quite up to scratch due to “losses” then 30 minutes should get you to a 100kW charger if that’s your preference.

 

[Neiltodd]

444 miles return or one way? Are you coming down south?

one way, South Yorkshire and back up at the end of the week

 

[Neiltodd]

Assuming a mixture of A roads and motorways, your average speed will probably be around 60mph overall, that's nearly 8 hours of non-stop driving - why on earth would you want to do that??? If you were a professional driver this would even be illegal. At any rate, even assuming that this is indeed your plan, I'd hazard a guess that there aren't too many people around who occasionally must drive for 8 hours without the option to stop along the way.

Because I can't drop the dog off at the Kennels till after 9.00am and I want to be at my cousins house before teatime for a chat before dinner. Might have to give in for toilet stop now I have got a bit older but didn't use to.

 

[TrueSpirit]

This sounds like a very interesting road trip. My wife loves meticulous planning, she'd enjoy such a trip. She'd organise some of our holidays with hourly slots for what we should be doing on holiday even though it is a holiday to Mauritius for example but at least we would end up seeing the island etc etc so organising a long trip this way can be quite a lot of fun if you enjoy this sort of planning.

Whereas I would get something roughly similar to this and really piss my wife off....

 

[MikeInWimbledon]

It’s important that we keep old people in their old cars and discourage people doing 2,000 miles a week in rural areas from jumping over to EVs without a second thought.

ICE used values have taken a terrific tumble since 2022 and we really don’t need them to fall any further.

From a driver’s point of view we’re only just beginning to see well made EVs from the major brands entering the market. Anything we can do to discourage marginal owners has to be to the benefit of all.

There still aren’t enough good EVs around. Used Tesla’s in particular need to be pressed into the hands of those in the urban areas who want cleaner, cheap motoring, and kept away from those who live in the boondocks.

Let’s not forget that diesel owners are a major source of tax revenue, so the last thing that nice Mr Starmer wants is to lose those billions, both this year and after the tax increases on ICE motoring. Those 34 million ICE vehicles still on the road are vital to the finance of modern government.

 

[keith of kent]

I am going to drive to France and Switzerland and have looked on this thread to see if there are any usefull tips. The car is an S212 E350.
But I seem to have arrived in the EV forum. Help!

 

[markjay]

I am going to drive to France and Switzerland and have looked on this thread to see if there are any usefull tips. The car is an S212 E350.
But I seem to have arrived in the EV forum. Help!

Having just driven from London to Switzerland, I found that the advice provided in (the first part of) this post was very helpful. Happy to share my experience so far if there's anything further that you want to know.

 

[clk320x]

one way, South Yorkshire and back up at the end of the week

Fair enough, just FYI you could comfortably do that journey with 2x 8min breaks or 1x 22 min break depending on your preference in an EV. Assuming you have access to a 3 pin socket at your cousins.

 

[Dippo]

Driving an electric car seems to be similar to being vegan - you don't have to ask whether someone does or is, because they'll tell you repeatedly.

 

[st13phil]

I am going to drive to France and Switzerland and have looked on this thread to see if there are any usefull tips. The car is an S212 E350.
But I seem to have arrived in the EV forum. Help!

One thing worth remembering is that depending upon where in Switzerland you’re heading to, you don’t have to follow the default route through France and pay their Autoroute tolls. It can also be viable to route across Belgium, Luxembourg and Germany - with a modest time penalty - and in some respects the journey will be more interesting as well as cheaper.

 

[BTB 500]

Fair enough, just FYI you could comfortably do that journey with 2x 8min breaks or 1x 22 min break depending on your preference in an EV. Assuming you have access to a 3 pin socket at your cousins.

Presumably you're looking at this as a Tesla owner, in a car that (a) has an unusually high range from a full charge and (b) has access to their Supercharger network. You'll recall @markjay saying that in his Hyundai he needed a rapid charge top up every 120 miles or so on a long run at a little over 70 to avoid range anxiety?

We've also established that an EV will route you via suitable & available chargers, not necessarily using the quickest route for the road/traffic conditions. So if you're comparing with doing the same trip in an ICE you need to bear in mind the actual driving time (ignoring the charging breaks you mention) will likely be longer in a BEV.

 

[clk320x]

We've also established that an EV will route you via suitable & available chargers, not necessarily using the quickest route for the road/traffic conditions. So if you're comparing with doing the same trip in an ICE you need to bear in mind the actual driving time (ignoring the charging breaks you mention) will likely be longer in a BEV.

It’s the same route even when looking on Apple Maps.

The chargers are all en-route.

 

[clk320x]

Presumably you're looking at this as a Tesla owner, in a car that (a) has an unusually high range from a full charge and (b) has access to their Supercharger network. You'll recall @markjay saying that in his Hyundai he needed a rapid charge top up every 120 miles or so on a long run at a little over 70 to avoid range anxiety?

My point is that the capability is more than that if you buy the right EV to suit your driving requirements (for cars at least)…