Advice regarding driving to France and Switzerland

[st13phil]

I'm pretty certain that with enough time and effort we can all find hypothetical journeys that are either impossible or possible with an EV without / with charging en-route. I'm also not sure that the discussion advances us much.

 

[markjay]

We've also established that an EV will give the driver the option to route you via suitable & available chargers, not necessarily using the quickest route for the road/traffic conditions. So if you're comparing with doing the same trip in an ICE you need to bear in mind the actual driving time (ignoring the charging breaks you mention) will likely be longer in a BEV.

FTFY.... just to clarify that the EV navigation software can be programmed by the drivers in whichever way they choose. You can untick 'check availability' (or the equivalent option) and it will not take into account if the charger is free or not. You can tick 'only chargers 50kW or more' etc etc. The configuration options are (almost) endless.

 

[clk320x]

I'm pretty certain that with enough time and effort we can all find hypothetical journeys that are either impossible or possible with an EV without / with charging en-route. I'm also not sure that the discussion advances us much.

I was only replying to a previous posters message about having to stick with ICE to do Highlands > S.Yorkshire.

Totally agree with your post.

 

[clk320x]

Driving an electric car seems to be similar to being vegan

Yes it is similar in the sense you have a choice to be vegan or eat meat, as you do to have an EV or an ICE.

I think you’ll find it’s often the opposite with ICE drivers jumping on any post about EVs rather than the other way around. It’s not too bad on this forum, but on other social media it’s horrific.

 

[keith of kent]

Last year we drove to Koblenz and back via Calais. We have some pretty dreadful potholes here in Kent but the Belgium autoroute from Lille to Liege made Kent roads look extremely well maintained. We pulled into one of the rest areas (not a petrol staion one) just to stretch our legs. We didn't even stop the car, even with the windows closed the stench of urine was overpowering, and the potholes in this rest area were big enough to loose a small car into. The route back took us via Brussels but that was only slightly better.
I much prefer to drive on beautifully well surfaced Frech autoroutes which have plentiful rest areas. Yes I am happy to pay for it. If that would cause me hardship I would sell my Mercedes and holiday in Margate at some hatefull immobile home park.
Also IMO the French in general are reasonable drivers certainly better than the Brits in Kent, whereas IMO the Belgiums have little interest at driving in a safe manner

 

[st13phil]

Last year we drove to Koblenz and back via Calais. We have some pretty dreadful potholes here in Kent but the Belgium autoroute from Lille to Liege made Kent roads look extremely well maintained. We pulled into one of the rest areas (not a petrol staion one) just to stretch our legs. We didn't even stop the car, even with the windows closed the stench of urine was overpowering, and the potholes in this rest area were big enough to loose a small car into. The route back took us via Brussels but that was only slightly better

Each to their own. I was just pointing out that there are alternatives to the - pretty boring - slog through northern France.

My experience of Belgium differs, and for the length of the stint across that country en-route to Germany and beyond it wouldn't be a great issue to me even if it were the same. I do, however, agree that their driving on faster roads can be somewhat "interesting".

 

[BTB 500]

It’s the same route even when looking on Apple Maps.

The chargers are all en-route.

As I said, you are looking at this as a Tesla owner. Only one of the Tesla charging sites you listed on that route is open to other EVs.

 

[BTB 500]

My point is that the capability is more than that if you buy the right EV to suit your driving requirements (for cars at least)…

For moving up to 4 people and a bit of luggage in a relatively small & sleek saloon or hatchback, possibly. But bigger EVs (there are no estate cars AFAIK, so you're limited to large SUVs) can't match the range, certainly at motorway speeds. They have too much drag.

 

[clk320x]

For moving up to 4 people and a bit of luggage in a relatively small & sleek saloon or hatchback, possibly. But bigger EVs (there are no estate cars AFAIK, so you're limited to large SUVs) can't match the range, certainly at motorway speeds. They have too much drag.

You’re right the charge time goes up to 1x 15min and 1x 12 min in the Model X Long Range - 7 seater so 27 mins opposed to 16 mins in a M3LR.

I know it’s a Tesla, but so what? I’m sure there will be other similar EVs… I only speak of Tesla as I try to stick to things I have personal experience of using rather than just googling.

 

[BTB 500]

FTFY.... just to clarify that the EV navigation software can be programmed by the drivers in whichever way they choose. You can untick 'check availability' (or the equivalent option) and it will not take into account if the charger is free or not. You can tick 'only chargers 50kW or more' etc etc. The configuration options are (almost) endless.

For sure. But fundamentally on a long run you have to travel between chargers if you want to reach your destination rather than run out of electrons by the side of the road. As discussed there really aren't that many public sites in the UK where you can do a rapid top-up (780 or so across the whole country), so you may need to deviate from the ideal route to get to some/all of them. Obviously if you have a Tesla you get access to all their sites as well, which may help (but not everyone drives a Tesla). So if comparing BEV and ICE on a specific trip (the post I was replying to) you need to take into account differences in route as well ... not just how long you'll have to stop at each charger when you get there.

From your description this isn't an issue in France where fast chargers are more plentiful.

 

[BTB 500]

You’re right the charge time goes up to 1x 15min and 1x 12 min in the Model X Long Range - 7 seater so 27 mins opposed to 16 mins in a M3LR.

The Model X is a £100k plus car so you'd kind of expect decent performance. However it still has less range than an M3LR, so you might have to make more (or longer) stops?

I know it’s a Tesla, but so what?

Because as I said that gives you access to a network of fast charging sites that other EVs can't use. Which is kind of relevant here ...

I try to stick to things I have personal experience of using rather than just googling.

Ah ok - I didn't realise you'd owned a Model X.

 

[clk320x]

The Model X is a £100k plus car so you'd kind of expect decent performance. However it still has less range than an M3LR, so you might have to make more (or longer) stops?

Yeah it’s about 11 mins longer if you use the optimum route. It’s definitely less efficient with the shape - but the 100 kWh battery helps with the range.

Ah ok - I didn't realise you'd owned a Model X.

Had one since January.

 

[BTB 500]

Each to their own. I was just pointing out that there are alternatives to the - pretty boring - slog through northern France.

My experience of Belgium differs, and for the length of the stint across that country en-route to Germany and beyond it wouldn't be a great issue to me even if it were the same. I do, however, agree that their driving on faster roads can be somewhat "interesting".

We always use the route through Belgium and (briefly) Holland when travelling to Germany. I find the roads a bit boring and some of the fuel stations are on the grim side, but we've not used them for many years (since the kids were little). We've only ever had one bad experience with Belgian drivers when a Golf missed the motorway junction we'd just taken (this was on the R0 round Brussels), cut across the grass verge to try and reach it, and became airborne after hitting a drainage gully. It landed a couple of meters from us with an almighty bang and a cloud of steam but miraculously remained upright and didn't hit anything.

 

[BTB 500]

It’s definitely less efficient with the shape - but the 100 kWh battery helps with the range.

Tesla says 421 miles for the M3LR on the standard 18" wheels, but only 337 miles for the X despite the bigger battery (current versions of each)?

 

[clk320x]

Tesla says 421 miles for the M3LR on the standard 18" wheels, but only 337 miles for the X despite the bigger battery (current versions of each)?

Yeah, the range is less, I mean the big battery helps offset the massively reduced efficiency by storing more energy. Like I said, on that run from Inverness to S.Yorkshire (400 mile ish) it would only be a total charging of 27 minutes over the 6 hours+.

It’s a great car to use when you need 7 seats or additional luggage space is required, but for daily runs especially down to say Central London with its narrow streets and parking bays, the 3s smaller form factor is a big plus.

 

[Neiltodd]

Fair enough, just FYI you could comfortably do that journey with 2x 8min breaks or 1x 22 min break depending on your preference in an EV. Assuming you have access to a 3 pin socket at your cousins.

see my later message re why I'm doing it in a oner.

 

[markjay]

see my later message re why I'm doing it in a oner.

Fully understood.

Roll forward 10 years or so, you're now driving an EV, would you do this journey with a charging stop, or would you now consider this journey as undoable, and you'll give it a miss?

If you answer the former, then my point is that some journeys will be less convenient in an EV, but still doable, and people will get used to it.

 

[clk320x]

see my later message re why I'm doing it in a oner.

I saw that, you want to get there before teatime, but you also said you might need to stop for a toilet break? Surely 2x 8 min or 1x 22 min stop over 6.5 hours isn’t really a big deal though, and gives some time to use the restrooms & grab a drink etc…

 

[markjay]

I saw that, you want to get there before teatime, but you also said you might need to stop for a toilet break? Surely 2x 8 min or 1x 22 min stop over 6.5 hours isn’t really a big deal though, and gives some time to use the restrooms & grab a drink etc…

I think that while a charging stop might be an inconvenience, it's minimal and certainly not a good reason for rejecting the government's plans of banning sales of new ICE cars.

 

[Bobby Dazzler]

As I said, you are looking at this as a Tesla owner. Only one of the Tesla charging sites you listed on that route is open to other EVs.

You’re thinking of it as an ICE owner though. There are plenty of other high speed chargers, however if you regularly need to cover very long distances - and wish/need to drive an EV - then the Tesla is the ideal choice, and hence why they’re so popular, and why some rack up serious mileages in them.