Advice regarding driving to France and Switzerland

[markjay]

In terms of figures...

The motorway speed limit in France is 130km/h. I set the cruise control to 120km/h, that's fast enough for me. Averaged 4.0-4.1 km/kWh at that speed. Not great, obviously, it's about 300 km for my battery size.

Assisting factors: the temperature was 17⁰ when I left London, and reached 25⁰ in France. And, obviously, it being a fine day, no electric consumers were needed (heating, AC, wipers, or headlamps). Also, the tyres were inflated to the highest figure within the permitted range.

Negative factors: very heavily loaded car, high speed driving, and open windows (for the dog). Also, the charging speed from the Ionity superchargers was 140kW, while the car should be capable of 220kW theoretically... but given the need to walk the dog, longer charging stops of 15-20 minutes were not a problem.

Tomorrow I have a 600 km drive. The plan is to charge twice, at 200 km and 400km, each stop about 15-20 minutes charging (I guess that 140kW is the best I'll get), which is perfect for the dog. Rought maths suggests that I should reach my destination with 30% battery. We'll see tomorrow how this works out....

 

[BTB 500]

no electric consumers were needed (heating, AC, wipers, or headlamps).

high speed driving, and open windows (for the dog).

Efficiency could well be better with the windows shut and aircon on. Worth a try.

 

[st13phil]

Efficiency could well be better with the windows shut and aircon on. Worth a try.

Beat me to it.

Open windows are a massive source of drag at higher speeds, certainly requiring more energy than air-con.

 

[ALFAitalia]

Nope....Mythbusters (the Discovery Channel show devoted to investigating myths and folk knowledge using science) put that to the test They found that it's more fuel efficient to roll down your windows than to use your air-conditioner.

 

[markjay]

Efficiency could well be better with the windows shut and aircon on. Worth a try.

Possibly. But the dog doesn't cope well with the aircon.. and she likes the windows open. What can I say? The windows stay down.

 

[BTB 500]

Nope....Mythbusters (the Discovery Channel show devoted to investigating myths and folk knowledge using science) put that to the test They found that it's more fuel efficient to roll down your windows than to use your air-conditioner.

Must surely depend on many variables ... driving speed, size of windows, drag coefficient of vehicle, power consumption of aircon unit, etc. etc. Another factor on a long run is fatigue from the noise with windows down at high speed.

All irrelevant if the dog doesn't like aircon though! Our ten get no choice - it's windows up and aircon on at all times.

 

[markjay]

In terms of figures...

The motorway speed limit in France is 130km/h. I set the cruise control to 120km/h, that's fast enough for me. Averaged 4.0-4.1 km/kWh at that speed. Not great, obviously, it's about 300 km for my battery size.

Now fully charged, the range estimate is better than I expected:

(It's about 260 miles)

 

[markjay]

While I hope that my experience may be useful to those who plan on driving in France, I am not sure that it's comparable with the UK.

First and foremost, the availability of charging points along the Autoroute is unbelievable, with many of them being Ionity 300/350 kW chargers. Then, paying €0.59 per kWh from an ultrafast charger at motorway services is probably half of what it would cost in the UK. And, with some Autoroutes being (rather expensive) toll roads, the locals seem to shun them, which makes driving for hours on end at high speed (75mph, in my case) perfectly feasible in France, not to mention that there are no queues (or cars, for that matter) at the chargers. EV driving in the UK is a very different experience.

Realistically, in France you'll probably need to pull into a charging point every 120 miles or so, and then charge for around 15 minutes, if you want to avoid range anxiety.

Obviously, you could do the 600km (400 miles) that I am due to be driving today on one tank in an ICE car, in one go, 3.5 hours non-stop, while it will take an additional half hour in an EV (two charging stops). So there's that.

 

[SpikyMikey]

While I hope that my experience may be useful to those who plan on driving in France, I am not sure that it's comparable with the UK.

First and foremost, the availability of charging points along the Autoroute is unbelievable, with many of them being Ionity 300/350 kW chargers. Then, paying €0.59 per kWh from an ultrafast charger at motorway services is probably half of what it would cost in the UK. And, with some Autoroutes being (rather expensive) toll roads, the locals seem to shun them, which makes driving for hours on end at high speed (75mph, in my case) perfectly feasible in France, not to mention that there are no queues (or cars, for that matter) at the chargers. EV driving in the UK is a very different experience.

Realistically, in France you'll probably need to pull into a charging point every 120 miles or so, and then charge for around 15 minutes, if you want to avoid range anxiety.

Obviously, you could do the 600km (400 miles) that I am due to be driving today on one tank in an ICE car, in one go, 3.5 hours non-stop, while it will take an additional half hour in an EV (two charging stops). So there's that.

Careful, with all this EV positivity, you won't be allowed back
Please keep us posted and if you manage a few pictures of Switzerland, that would be nice.
Enjoy your trip -safe travels.

 

[markjay]

Just to say that €0.59 is PAYG rates... the cost with a monthly subscription (£4.95) was €0.36. And, again, that's from an ultrafast charger on the motorway. EV electricity is ridiculously cheap in France.

 

[MikeInWimbledon]

Now fully charged, the range estimate is better than I expected:

(It's about 260 miles)

Estimates, schmestimate…

Range is always calculated “economist” style: passed on past performance. So it’s purely a guess.

You need to see what actually happens on those steadily flowing motorways.

But only idiots worry about range. You just top up when you can, not when you need to.

Because both humans and dogs need a stretch, some walkies and a snack to comfortably enjoy a day in the car. It’s not a race

 

[MikeInWimbledon]

Just to say that €0.59 is PAYG rates... the cost with a monthly subscription (£4.95) was €0.36. And, again, that's from an ultrafast charger on the motorway. EV electricity is ridiculously cheap in France.

And, like petrol will be cheaper just off the motorway. Motorway operators areas know they have a captive market.

But at just over 10 pence a mile EV commercial charger travel hardly expensive

 

[BTB 500]

While I hope that my experience may be useful to those who plan on driving in France, I am not sure that it's comparable with the UK.

First and foremost, the availability of charging points along the Autoroute is unbelievable, with many of them being Ionity 300/350 kW chargers. Then, paying €0.59 per kWh from an ultrafast charger at motorway services is probably half of what it would cost in the UK. And, with some Autoroutes being (rather expensive) toll roads, the locals seem to shun them, which makes driving for hours on end at high speed (75mph, in my case) perfectly feasible in France, not to mention that there are no queues (or cars, for that matter) at the chargers. EV driving in the UK is a very different experience.

Realistically, in France you'll probably need to pull into a charging point every 120 miles or so, and then charge for around 15 minutes, if you want to avoid range anxiety.

It's still interesting and useful to see experiences of long/fast motorway runs - this may be exceptional/unusual for you (and probably many other EV owners) but it's what we do most weekends in the UK. Enjoy your trip and keep posting!

 

[rf065]

Nope....Mythbusters (the Discovery Channel show devoted to investigating myths and folk knowledge using science) put that to the test They found that it's more fuel efficient to roll down your windows than to use your air-conditioner.

That's how urban myths are started!
This what Mythbusters found..............................

Running a car with air conditioning on is more fuel efficient than running with the windows down.​

PARTLY CONFIRMED*

Tests were performed under varying conditions (55 mph versus 45 mph). The 55 mph test used a computer to estimate fuel efficiency based on air intake, not actual fuel consumption, and showed A/C was more efficient. The 45 mph test consisted of running the tank until it was empty, and showed open windows were more efficient.

* Because the original tests were inconclusive, this myth was revisited in episode 38, in which it is found that air conditioning is more fuel-efficient when the car is traveling approximately 50 mph or more. At slower speeds, windows are more fuel-efficient.

 

[philnewmerc]

So your economy at 75 mph is 2.5 m/kwh. This is great first hand info to know. (BTW was that real or what the speedo says, and is the efficiency true or does it not include charging losses?)

But anyway, 59 cent per kw makes this EV travel 24 cents per mile, or about 21 pence per mile (in near ideal conditions).

That’s the equivalent, in cost, of a petrol car doing about 33 mpg.

Obviously, the main thing is this car is ideal if you can charge overnight for pennies, or mainly drive at slower speeds when they're far more efficient than ice, or get a nice tax-payer kickback, or just enjoy the serenity of electric (I can certainly see all those benefits coming my way sooner or later, probably sooner), but for running costs on holiday/long distance trips they still seem a bit expensive??

PS, My dog prefers open windows too: I think the air con dries the air hence they get dehydrated even when the cabin is cool.

 

[st13phil]

That's how urban myths are started!
This what Mythbusters found..............................

Running a car with air conditioning on is more fuel efficient than running with the windows down.​

PARTLY CONFIRMED*

Tests were performed under varying conditions (55 mph versus 45 mph). The 55 mph test used a computer to estimate fuel efficiency based on air intake, not actual fuel consumption, and showed A/C was more efficient. The 45 mph test consisted of running the tank until it was empty, and showed open windows were more efficient.

* Because the original tests were inconclusive, this myth was revisited in episode 38, in which it is found that air conditioning is more fuel-efficient when the car is traveling approximately 50 mph or more. At slower speeds, windows are more fuel-efficient.

Thanks for the clarification / confirmation. My guess was that travelling with windows open was only more efficient at relatively low speeds, and that's not what @markjay was doing.

FWIW, and I know this is a relatively extreme example, having the roof down on Angie's SLK55 when cruising at 130kph costs approximately 3mpg vs. roof up and air-con running. That's around a 10% penalty on fuel consumption caused by the extra drag.

 

[BTB 500]

FWIW, and I know this is a relatively extreme example, having the roof down on Angie's SLK55 when cruising at 130kph costs approximately 3mpg vs. roof up and air-con running. That's around a 10% penalty on fuel consumption caused by the extra drag.

As a complete aside my R129 has slightly better fuel consumption with the hardtop on than with the hood up. I did see the difference in coefficient of drag quoted somewhere

 

[markjay]

Well, second leg completed...

600 km. Could be done by the car with one charging stop, but the humans and the dog needed two stops... I therefore charged twice along the route, first in France and then in Switzerland. Each time I arrived with over 50% of charge, so a very comfortable journey as far as charging goes.

Again, I can't believe how backwards is our motorway charging infrastructure in the UK (based on posts here and elsewhere) compared to France and Switzerland. There are ultrafast chargers everywhere, and very cheap electricity. The charging stations are clean and comfortable, with dog exercise areas, no faulty charges and no queues (very vary few other cars charging....).

 

[rf065]

Again, I can't believe how backwards is our motorway charging infrastructure in the UK (based on posts here and elsewhere) compared to France

To be fair, in the UK we have never had toilets that amount to a hole in the ground you need to squat over. They might be ahead on chargers but they need to catch up in other areas!

 

[markjay]

Thanks for the clarification / confirmation. My guess was that travelling with windows open was only more efficient at relatively low speeds, and that's not what @markjay was doing.

FWIW, and I know this is a relatively extreme example, having the roof down on Angie's SLK55 when cruising at 130kph costs approximately 3mpg vs. roof up and air-con running. That's around a 10% penalty on fuel consumption caused by the extra drag.

At motorway speeds (over 100 km/h), the windows were 2" open, off the motorway they were fully down.