Advice regarding driving to France and Switzerland

[sgregory124]

Well, second leg completed...

600 km. Could be done by the car with one charging stop, but the humans and the dog needed two stops... I therefore charged twice along the route, first in France and then in Switzerland. Each time I arrived with over 50% of charge, so a very comfortable journey as far as charging goes.

Again, I can't believe how backwards is our motorway charging infrastructure in the UK (based on posts here and elsewhere) compared to France and Switzerland. There are ultrafast chargers everywhere, and very cheap electricity. The charging stations are clean and comfortable, with dog exercise areas, no faulty charges and no queues (very vary few other cars charging....).

That’ll be because the French know how to put a power infrastructure together, with judicious and extensive use of nuclear power. The U.K. can’t even build an extra power station without years of arguments and committees and that’s with the French’s help

 

[sgregory124]

To be fair, in the UK we have never had toilets that amount to a hole in the ground you need to squat over. They might be ahead on chargers but they need to catch up in other areas!

They may as well be holes in the ground, have you actually stopped at any service area run by Moto?

Pure and unadulterated filth for the most part….

 

[markjay]

It's still interesting and useful to see experiences of long/fast motorway runs - this may be exceptional/unusual for you (and probably many other EV owners) but it's what we do most weekends in the UK. Enjoy your trip and keep posting!

Indeed it is (very) exceptional for me... 600 km at 100 km/h average speed (the second leg wasn't all motorway driving) with no stops, is 6 hours non-stop driving, and there's no way I can do that. I am aware that some people do drive long hours without stopping, but anyone who can drive 6 hours non-stop is a better man than I. Or younger. Or both....

Of course most ICE cars can easily do 600 km without refuelling, and I suppose that if you have two drivers that's more practical than sitting 6 hours non-stop at the wheel, but some of us are getting older and do not have a bladder capacity to match their fuel tank's...

Realistically, I can't imagine that driving 6 hours non-stop is very common (though, as said, some do), and therefore most people will probably not have an issue with making a 600 km (375 miles) in an EV with one or two charging stops, but ONLY if there's a good network of fast chargers along the route.

 

[markjay]

That’ll be because the French know how to put a power infrastructure together, with judicious and extensive use of nuclear power. The U.K. can’t even build an extra power station without years of arguments and committees and that’s with the French’s help

Also, there were many wind turbines along the route, must have been dozens if not hundreds. But in one of the villages the locals put up a banner protesting against wind turbines in their area, so it seems that it's a controversial issue.

 

[markjay]

...Also, the charging speed from the Ionity superchargers was 140kW, while the car should be capable of 220kW theoretically...

Well, I did not expect that....:

At a FASTNED 300 kW charger.

No idea why charging speeds seem to fluctuate so much, though. I saw 140 kW, 180 kW, and nearly 220 kW, all from ultrafast chargers. I guess it's something to do with the battery state.

At any rate, Well Done to the engineers in Seoul (even if the ASA did rule that claiming 220 kW is misleading advertising, because it can't be guaranteed in all circumstances).

EDIT: To clarify, after 80%, the car drops the charge speed to 50 kW, to protect the battery, which is why it is recommended to only top up to 80% if you are charging at an ultrafast charger and you are in a hurry. I.e., overall travel time will be shorter with two charging stops from (say) 60% to 80% each, than with a single charging stop from 60% to 100%. However, in my case I left the car to charge to 100%, because I needed to make stops longer than 10 minutes anyway. Each of my two stops lasted around 30 minutes, including walking the dog and getting refreshments etc.

BTW, The charge level when arriving at my final destination was 62%. I originally anticipated it to be aroubd 30%, but part of the journey was up and down the mountains (French Alps / Swiss Alps) where driving speeds are lower and the energy consumption per mile is also significantly lower than when driving at motorway speeds.

 

[MikeInWimbledon]

To be fair, in the UK we have never had toilets that amount to a hole in the ground you need to squat over. They might be ahead on chargers but they need to catch up in other areas!

And British toilets do still tend to have seats.

Still a rarity for gentlemen in French cafes

 

[markjay]

Well, second leg completed...

600 km. Could be done by the car with one charging stop, but the humans and the dog needed two stops... I therefore charged twice along the route, first in France and then in Switzerland. Each time I arrived with over 50% of charge, so a very comfortable journey as far as charging goes.

Sorry, it has been a long day....

I had THREE charging stops, each lasting around 30 minutes, charging the car to 100%.

Apologies for the confusion....

 

[BTB 500]

Indeed it is (very) exceptional for me... 600 km at 100 km/h average speed (the second leg wasn't all motorway driving) with no stops, is 6 hours non-stop driving, and there's no way I can do that. I am aware that some people do drive long hours without stopping, but anyone who can drive 6 hours non-stop is a better man than I. Or younger. Or both....

Of course most ICE cars can easily do 600 km without refuelling, and I suppose that if you have two drivers that's more practical than sitting 6 hours non-stop at the wheel, but some of us are getting older and do not have a bladder capacity to match their fuel tank's...

Realistically, I can't imagine that driving 6 hours non-stop is very common (though, as said, some do), and therefore most people will probably not have an issue with making a 600 km (375 miles) in an EV with one or two charging stops, but ONLY if there's a good network of fast chargers along the route.

That's all fine. But a round trip of 200-300 motorway miles in a day isn't exceptional for many people (we do this maybe 3-4 times a month for much of the year), so as I said real-world experience of prolonged cruising at higher speeds will be interesting/relevant to many.

 

[MikeInWimbledon]

More importantly, when you’re settled, for the younger, less range anxious, let us know your thoughts on the driving experience.

For this kind of journey how does the very modern Ioniq 5 actually compare to a C, E, or GLC ?

 

[markjay]

More importantly, when you’re settled, for the younger, less range anxious, let us know your thoughts on the driving experience.

For this kind of journey how does the very modern Ioniq 5 actually compare to a C, E, or GLC ?

The IONIQ 5 is an engineering marvel, amazingly well built, and has Toyota-class reliability. However, it is as bland to drive as a Toyota Prius... not aided by a slightly vague steering and a chassis/suspension setup that doesn't like sharp bends. It's super efficient and well designed, I can't fault it, but - unlike my (now sold) W204 - the IONIQ 5 never made me feel at the end of the journey that I wish that the drive wasn't over yet...

On the plus side, and that's not specific to EVs, the autopilot (essentially a combination of adaptive cruise control and lane keep assist plus various other sensors and gadgets) - while nowhere near as sophisticated as the Tesla FSD - does make for very relaxing 'long-haul' motorway cruising, I felt much less tired after driving through long motorway stretches.

What also helps - though not on this journey because the windows weren't closed - is that the cabin is quiet, apart for some wind and tyre noise.

In summary - the 'pros' is that it is a worthy contender to the best from Toyota (and I had a Toyota for 20 years), both in terms of built quality and reliability, the 'cons' is that it also drives like a Toyota...

 

[MikeInWimbledon]

In summary - the 'pros' is that it is a worthy contender to the best from Toyota (and I had a Toyota for 20 years), both in terms of built quality and reliability, the 'cons' is that it also drives like a Toyota...

Thanks for this - very useful. As I read it, I thought to myself "so he's saying it drives like a Toyota but it drives like a Toyota." And then you said exactly that !

Good that it's quiet inside - I found both the Tesla 3 and the EV6 annoyingly "noisy" inside - not from the drivetrain, but from road, wind, creaks and rattles.

Have a great trip. Good time to be there - I'm out there end May / early June. Love it "off season."

It's blowing a hooley in London.

 

[GeorgeR]

It's still free to charge the car at the Shuttle (on both sides). They have huge numbers of 50 kW chargers so no issue in accessing them.

Coming back they have free 250kw chargers at Calais (but not a Folkestone yet) so you'll be able to charge from 20 to 80% in 15 minutes

Plenty of chargers on the motorway network now. A very noticeable change since last Winter.

Lidl's are cheaper, of course. They all have chargers now at 35p / kWh (39 cents)

Carrefour hypermarkets have 300kw chargers. Again: 20 to 80% charging in 15 minutes.
22kw charging is free for the first hour if you have a Carrefour loyalty card. (call it 60 free miles in return for an hour's shopping)
€0.60 for high speed charging I've never seen a queue at Carrefour Antibes, but TBH, it's rare to see an EV charging at all.
Carrefour supermarkets usually have 22kw charging where they have a car park.

Hotels with car parks have chargers now, but you'll have seen that when you booked.

You haven't said which part of Switzerland, but if it's the South West avoid Paris. The Reims route is empty and pleasant.

Apply on line for the Crit Air certificate for France. Use only the government sites, not the agencies. It's about £4 and arrives within three days.

"Because of Brexit" Brits can NOT be fined from cameras because the French police no longer have access to the DVLA home address data base
You'll see Belgians & Dutch doing 100+ mph but the French are fairly docile now. There are many more cameras around generally than when you last visited France.
You can be stopped by police with a speed gun. Exceed the speed limit by more than 50kph and the fine can get expensive quite quickly (it goes up to about €1300)

I have got speeding ticket from France last year. Speed cam 87km vs 80.

All very interesting advice. Particularly interesting re speed cameras and fines not making their way to your address anymore Presumably same with parking fines?



So I got a couple through the post after a driving holiday, France and Spain, pre Brexit, I thought if i didn't pay it then yes they're not going to pursue me but on the other hand my car (if still owned) could be flashed up on whatever their version of anpr is and then I'd be rogered? Or was my thinking complete bollocks? Is ignoring still unwise if in a hire car?

Parking fine will reach you from the EU for sure. You can pay by card though.

 

[MikeInWimbledon]

I have got speeding ticket from France last year. Speed cam 87km vs 80.

Parking fine will reach you from the EU for sure. You can pay by card though.

On your British registered car, or on an EU rental vehicle?

 

[markjay]

....The charge level when arriving at my final destination was 62%. I originally anticipated it to be aroubd 30%, but part of the journey was up and down the mountains (French Alps / Swiss Alps) where driving speeds are lower and the energy consumption per mile is also significantly lower than when driving at motorway speeds.

Driving an EV in the mountains is proving to be interesting... I drove down to the valley yesterday, and after driving 15km I reached the bottom of the valley with 65% charge (up from 62% at the start of of the journey). Of course, the gain evaporated on the way back. But the energy consumption statistics made me lough:

(It reminds me of the days when ICE cars had simple trip computers that showed 99mpg when coasting downhill...)

 

[markjay]

Charging in the village proved challenging though... there are fast chargers in the valley (Shell Recharge), and it actually makes more sense to stop there for 10-25 minutes and charge the car to 80%, than charge in the village up on the mountain.

There are dozens of public chargers in the village, but they are all 11kW, and none are close to me. So the only option is to charge whenever I go shopping in the village centre, but one hour parking on an 11kW public charger only gives me around 10%, so it's a bit of a pain.

I have a wall socket in the garage, so could try charging it on a granny cable if I get desperate.

 

[MikeInWimbledon]

Charging in the village proved challenging though... there are fast chargers in the valley (Shell Recharge), and it actually makes more sense to stop there for 10-25 minutes and charge the car to 80%, than charge in the village up on the mountain.

There are dozens of public chargers in the village, but they are all 11kW, and none are close to me. So the only option is to charge whenever I go shopping in the village centre, but one hour parking on an 11kW public charger only gives me around 10%, so it's a bit of a pain.

I have a wall socket in the garage, so could try charging it on a granny cable if I get desperate.

What’s wrong with just topping up from the granny cable in your garage ? You wouldn’t do it year round but for a couple of weeks, why not?

 

[MikeInWimbledon]

Charging in the village proved challenging though... there are fast chargers in the valley (Shell Recharge), and it actually makes more sense to stop there for 10-25 minutes and charge the car to 80%, than charge in the village up on the mountaiin.

Isby this “charge when you can, not when you have to?

How long are the queues?

 

[MikeInWimbledon]

Driving an EV in the mountains is proving to be interesting... I drove down to the valley yesterday, and after driving 15km I reached the bottom of the valley with 65% charge (up from 62% at the start of of the journey). Of course, the gain evaporated on the way back. But the energy consumption statistics made me lough:

(It reminds me of the days when ICE cars had simple trip computers that showed 99mpg when coasting downhill...)

There are Canadian Tree loggers who run electric trucks delivering logs from the mountains that run their trucks on the energy gsined from delivering the trees down from the hills and mountains.

The drive down full of trees, charging from the excess energy, and return empty on the energy stored in the batteries.

Strange people doing an almost suicidal job

 

[MikeInWimbledon]

Here’s the story of those hybrid trucks than run on a twelfth of the power of a diesel logging truck:

Meet the B.C. lumberjacks who set out to build a hybrid electric logging truck - The Globe and Mail

With a lack of electric heavy-duty trucks, Chace Barber and Eric Little took matters into their own hands and launched Edison Motors

www.theglobeandmail.com

 

[markjay]

Isby this “charge when you can, not when you have to?

How long are the queues?

Queues? For what, charging? There are lots of available chargers everywhere, no queues...

And yes, I top up when I can. In London I just charged up to 80% every week or two.

Anyways, it was snowing last night.... so the IONIQ 5 is now officially in hibernation until the snow melts and the temperature goes up. Driving a local (ICE) car now with proper snow tyres.