I've been reading this thread with interest even though it is old. You seem to have lots of experiance in airconditioning systems.
Having recently been doing some research i have a question that likely you will be able to answer if you are still active on here.
These automatic machines, as far as i can tell they evac the gas and store it back in the same container to be reused/recycled. Can you tell me what happens if the system is full of air or if somebody has used a topup (equivalent to R134) type gas? Does that just mix in with the proper refridgerant and eventually over time just dilute the gas or contaminate it?
I am not the expert you are referring to, but I do have experience on many types, both mobile A/C & fixed industrial type installations such as reefers, and APU's on big truck/trailers & trains as well as private cars.
OK to be specific to your question, the majority of current recycling machines are designed for R134a refrigerants.
These roll around shop machines are akin to plug 'n play, basically de-skilling the evacuation /charging & test operations, and can be used here in the US by non qualified shop staff as long as one senior member of the shop staff is certified to dispense refrigerants. In my business case, I have the required EPA 609 license, so does my head tech, and additionally I have EPA 608 licensure for industrial refrigerants like R22, R411 Puron etc.
Now in a perfect world there would be no DIY'rs dicking about and sloppy techs half arsing /working on A/C systems but rather ONLY qualified people.
BUT we don't live in a perfect world!
So back to your question,
YES the recycling machine stores what you extract from a system where it is filtered.
A Snap On filter for a Robinaire machine is about
$350 which you replace at least annually.
We have two such machines .Cost was
$6500 each.
The machine is also capable of auto discharging air etc called
non condensables extracted from a system if someone has really been busy with cans or just downright careless, typically by not evacuating the system.
Now the problems:-
The machines cannot identify rogue refrigerants , nor additives like stop leak sealants found in cans of DIY (instant small amount charges) usually with
PAG 100 to be legally sold to non quals . (When in fact many vehicles like MB & Toyotas use
PAG 45 oils ).
So consequently in a repair shop you run the very real risk of cross contamination with a customers ' car with charging "bad refrigerants" and he/she pays for that abject carelessness!
So being a reputable shop we have a purity tester that first checks the refrigerant in the vehicle
BEFORE its recycled.
Now sealants, a big problem, so we have a tester for that, and if I suspect we have an avid DIY'r who is suspected of charging with 1lb ort big gulp 2 ,5 lbs cans we call him as
Mr CanMan has been busy on this 'un, we approach the system with care !
IF these sealant by the way get into the machine it will "down it" with a bill to the shop of about
$1000 for a major service and parts replacement. Let alone pumping that $chit into an innocent customers car
In any case an for this reason alone each winter my machines are serviced/certified by a
Robinnair tech for $600 each.
New tech stuff .
A new refrigerant is now being used called
1234YF and the recycle machine is about
$14,000 to buy and comes with a built in refrigerant identifier and enhancements that the older machines don't have.
www.robinair.com
Electric run compressors such as found on Hybrids .
The regular R134a machines must NOT be used on these systems.
The PAG oil used in these vehicles is a special and if regular PAG oil is injected with refrigerant into an electric driven compressor it will short it out, and you will get the big bloody triangle and a bill for about $5000.
So don't let unqualified dickheads dickey with it !
Tuercas Viejas
