The _Don
MB Enthusiast
- Joined
- Jul 11, 2010
- Messages
- 3,942
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- Mb
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noy91
Active Member
Probably good for weight distribution, but will take a lot more boost to get equivalent torque figures I'd have thought.
Pitts Pilot
Active Member
How very sad.
It's a sign of the times that the big displacement engines (in Europe) are being replaced with smaller more fuel efficient, less CO2 engines.
There is no substitute for CC's. The roar of a big V8 or V12, the grunt available under one’s right foot. There is something irreplaceable about a big engined car and the way it feels, sounds, and drives! The ‘Times they are a Changing’.
Look at BMW's replacement for the sublime M3, the M4. Sure it’s a great car, but its smaller greener engine doesn't make enough noise because the turbos in the exhaust damp some of it, so they have arranged for engine sounds to be fed through the car's sound system speakers! I mean, PLEASEEE!
What I fear is the continuing erosion of muscle cars and big torque producing engines. It's happening all around us, the Tree Huggers are beating their Global Warming drum, and in 15 years time every Porsche, Ferrari, Mercedes AMG, etc will only be available with two engine options: Hybrid or fully Electric.
All in the name of politically correct Save the Planet from G-warming.
Incidentally, whether you believe that G-Warming is part of a natural 15,000 year planetary cycle or is caused by mankind, doesn’t matter a jot!
With China starting construction on a new coal Power Station every two weeks, and putting 1.5 million new cars on their roads every month, [Yes, you read that correctly, every month], the demise of the big engine sports car, who’s numbers contribute to a fraction of one percent of the global motoring CO2 foot print, means it all makes no difference to the big picture. No difference at all.
Add in America’s love of gas guzzling SUV’s doing 8 mpg and it’s clear that Europe’s car manufacturers are just playing at politics. And they say politics is all about ‘perception’. Well, MB wants to be seen to be following the green wagon.
Public opinion has also been carefully 'managed' over the last 10 years, with many drivers now demonstrating tangible hostility towards the 4x4 brigade, and equally the high performance sports car folk.
I’m not saying I’m a fan of gas guzzling engines, particularly the American type, but I object to the loss of choice.
And I also resent the surreptitious way the ‘green agenda’ is being forced on me.
Phew, got that off my chest!
Flame away
.
It's a sign of the times that the big displacement engines (in Europe) are being replaced with smaller more fuel efficient, less CO2 engines.
There is no substitute for CC's. The roar of a big V8 or V12, the grunt available under one’s right foot. There is something irreplaceable about a big engined car and the way it feels, sounds, and drives! The ‘Times they are a Changing’.
Look at BMW's replacement for the sublime M3, the M4. Sure it’s a great car, but its smaller greener engine doesn't make enough noise because the turbos in the exhaust damp some of it, so they have arranged for engine sounds to be fed through the car's sound system speakers! I mean, PLEASEEE!
What I fear is the continuing erosion of muscle cars and big torque producing engines. It's happening all around us, the Tree Huggers are beating their Global Warming drum, and in 15 years time every Porsche, Ferrari, Mercedes AMG, etc will only be available with two engine options: Hybrid or fully Electric.
All in the name of politically correct Save the Planet from G-warming.
Incidentally, whether you believe that G-Warming is part of a natural 15,000 year planetary cycle or is caused by mankind, doesn’t matter a jot!
With China starting construction on a new coal Power Station every two weeks, and putting 1.5 million new cars on their roads every month, [Yes, you read that correctly, every month], the demise of the big engine sports car, who’s numbers contribute to a fraction of one percent of the global motoring CO2 foot print, means it all makes no difference to the big picture. No difference at all.
Add in America’s love of gas guzzling SUV’s doing 8 mpg and it’s clear that Europe’s car manufacturers are just playing at politics. And they say politics is all about ‘perception’. Well, MB wants to be seen to be following the green wagon.
Public opinion has also been carefully 'managed' over the last 10 years, with many drivers now demonstrating tangible hostility towards the 4x4 brigade, and equally the high performance sports car folk.
I’m not saying I’m a fan of gas guzzling engines, particularly the American type, but I object to the loss of choice.
And I also resent the surreptitious way the ‘green agenda’ is being forced on me.
Phew, got that off my chest!
Flame away
.
CaptainRAVE
Active Member
- Joined
- Jan 7, 2015
- Messages
- 297
- Car
- SLK55 AMG Diamond White
This makes me very sad, no more 55s . SLK45 just doesn't have the same ring to it.
Impressive what they are doing with their engines though...technologically they seem to have completely eliminated the turbo lag and are drawing more and more on the success of the F1 engines.
Combined with the fact that I don't like the R172 that it will probably be the last 55, I can't see me changing mine anytime soon. It is a shame that the high end cars are getting forced down this route.
. SLK45 just doesn't have the same ring to it. Impressive what they are doing with their engines though...technologically they seem to have completely eliminated the turbo lag and are drawing more and more on the success of the F1 engines.
Combined with the fact that I don't like the R172 that it will probably be the last 55, I can't see me changing mine anytime soon. It is a shame that the high end cars are getting forced down this route.
I strangely find myself agreeing with lots of things in this thread.
Namely yes, I think it's political and done to save seals and kittens, though it's only certain countries who are bothering.
The new MB V8 is apparently a monster though, and producing well over 500bhp out of the box, with lots more to come from the factory, even before the dedicated tuners get their hands on it. As BFT states, putting the turbo in the V helps, putting two there helps more (Hot V I believe it's known as?)
I believe that the model configuration/numbering will be staying the same, with the top of each range being designated the 63 number, even though it bears no relation to engine size, though this has been going on for a while now anyway.
I'll be keeping my 5.5 for a while as I like it and it's starting to come together how I want it now, but if I was looking for a new car I'd be very tempted with one of these 4 litre lumps.
Namely yes, I think it's political and done to save seals and kittens, though it's only certain countries who are bothering.
The new MB V8 is apparently a monster though, and producing well over 500bhp out of the box, with lots more to come from the factory, even before the dedicated tuners get their hands on it. As BFT states, putting the turbo in the V helps, putting two there helps more
(Hot V I believe it's known as?)I believe that the model configuration/numbering will be staying the same, with the top of each range being designated the 63 number, even though it bears no relation to engine size, though this has been going on for a while now anyway.
I'll be keeping my 5.5 for a while as I like it and it's starting to come together how I want it now, but if I was looking for a new car I'd be very tempted with one of these 4 litre lumps.
Seriously stop going on about it until you have DRIVEN these cars!
No replacement for displacement is an interesting rhyme from the 80's but that was when old V8's struggled to produce 200bhp. Without the introduction of fuel injection, clever cams, multiple different bits on your engine that you probably don't even know about then how on earth do you think we get the power outputs up on these babies?
I confess when I brought the RS6 with it's tiny 4.0 V8 in it, I was struggling mentally with how the car could be close to it's predecessor the 5.2 V10 (2 cylinders down, a whole 1 Litre for crying out loud!) and it competing against the CLS63 AMG 5.5 TT engine was just going to be impossible. But I drove them with a slightly closed mind and found the RS6 with it's tiny engine, sounded fantastic (more F1 than brutal AMG I will be honest) but for a large estate car actually handled fantastic. Something Audi RS's are not known for. The whole package was responsive, the new ZF 8 speed gearbox made an absolute mockery of the 7 speed DCT effort from Mercedes (PLEASE wake up Mercedes!!!) and the car was a better motor with the 4 wheel drive system. Look at most online videos from Tiff, Chris Harris etc. they all confirm which car they prefer outright and forget the brands, it's all down to the engine and gearbox.
Now I am on a Mercedes forum.... But the point behind that little moment is the new C63 AMG has the 4.0TT as does the GT. It's smaller, sounds fantastic still and is going to be an awesome car.
My RS6 is 560bhp as standard, running 682bhp on a remap alone with more to come.
The AMG A45 AMG with it's little engine, is awesome to drive, sounds fantastic and currently almost around 450bhp with an exhaust. I mean come on!!!!
Economy/emissions do have their place. And if we can get something that does it all fantastic. It isn't politics it's almost as always a showpiece for the manufacturers to show what they can actually do. Anyone car thwack a big engine in a car and go wahey 400bhp. But getting a 2.0T in there and running that at 400bhp+ and does 40MPG? It's impressive.
Cars are faster than they ever have been. They have more BHP and more torque all round that is better to drive, smoother to drive and an engineering marvel.
There is always choice, that is where tuning comes in! You can take the risk and do what you like yourself. The M4 is massively tuneable and the exhausts you can get make it your choice! Audi now offer for £1000 as a factory or dealer fitted extra a sports exhaust that sounds amazing and still family friendly too.
Please guys go drive these cars before just looking at numbers!! Remember I have a Weistec SL55 car and love it's displacement.
No replacement for displacement is an interesting rhyme from the 80's but that was when old V8's struggled to produce 200bhp. Without the introduction of fuel injection, clever cams, multiple different bits on your engine that you probably don't even know about then how on earth do you think we get the power outputs up on these babies?
I confess when I brought the RS6 with it's tiny 4.0 V8 in it, I was struggling mentally with how the car could be close to it's predecessor the 5.2 V10 (2 cylinders down, a whole 1 Litre for crying out loud!) and it competing against the CLS63 AMG 5.5 TT engine was just going to be impossible. But I drove them with a slightly closed mind and found the RS6 with it's tiny engine, sounded fantastic (more F1 than brutal AMG I will be honest) but for a large estate car actually handled fantastic. Something Audi RS's are not known for. The whole package was responsive, the new ZF 8 speed gearbox made an absolute mockery of the 7 speed DCT effort from Mercedes (PLEASE wake up Mercedes!!!) and the car was a better motor with the 4 wheel drive system. Look at most online videos from Tiff, Chris Harris etc. they all confirm which car they prefer outright and forget the brands, it's all down to the engine and gearbox.
Now I am on a Mercedes forum.... But the point behind that little moment is the new C63 AMG has the 4.0TT as does the GT. It's smaller, sounds fantastic still and is going to be an awesome car.
My RS6 is 560bhp as standard, running 682bhp on a remap alone with more to come.
The AMG A45 AMG with it's little engine, is awesome to drive, sounds fantastic and currently almost around 450bhp with an exhaust. I mean come on!!!!
Economy/emissions do have their place. And if we can get something that does it all fantastic. It isn't politics it's almost as always a showpiece for the manufacturers to show what they can actually do. Anyone car thwack a big engine in a car and go wahey 400bhp. But getting a 2.0T in there and running that at 400bhp+ and does 40MPG? It's impressive.
Cars are faster than they ever have been. They have more BHP and more torque all round that is better to drive, smoother to drive and an engineering marvel.
There is always choice, that is where tuning comes in! You can take the risk and do what you like yourself. The M4 is massively tuneable and the exhausts you can get make it your choice! Audi now offer for £1000 as a factory or dealer fitted extra a sports exhaust that sounds amazing and still family friendly too.
Please guys go drive these cars before just looking at numbers!! Remember I have a Weistec SL55 car and love it's displacement.
stereophoney
Active Member
- Joined
- Dec 10, 2012
- Messages
- 179
- Car
- SLK32, Clio Diesel
I had a CLK55 and it was a fantastic engine and I didn't think I'd like anything smaller, but the 3.2k is excellent, faster and more tuneable. The only downside is the v6 doesn't sound as good. I wouldn't fear a smaller v8!
Conquistador
MB Enthusiast
+1 for what BFT said.
Audi's new V8T unit (also in the new Bentley Conti GT) is amazing. I also ditched a 5.2 V10 in an S8 and thought that nothing Audi currently sells could come close to the package that engine offered. The new V8 in the RS6, RS7 and S8 etc. goes like stink, the exhaust sounds fantastic and meaty, and it's certainly the future, with other companies doing the same. Indeed, the new C63, BMW M3 and Audi S/RS models all have smaller engines than their predecessors. Highly tuned and highly efficient is the way forward.
Just have a look at this where it sh*ts all over an R8:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?x-yt-cl=84359240&x-yt-ts=1421782837&v=4J4Jy4yJE1E
[YOUTUBE]4J4Jy4yJE1E[/YOUTUBE]
Audi's new V8T unit (also in the new Bentley Conti GT) is amazing. I also ditched a 5.2 V10 in an S8 and thought that nothing Audi currently sells could come close to the package that engine offered. The new V8 in the RS6, RS7 and S8 etc. goes like stink, the exhaust sounds fantastic and meaty, and it's certainly the future, with other companies doing the same. Indeed, the new C63, BMW M3 and Audi S/RS models all have smaller engines than their predecessors. Highly tuned and highly efficient is the way forward.
Just have a look at this where it sh*ts all over an R8:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?x-yt-cl=84359240&x-yt-ts=1421782837&v=4J4Jy4yJE1E
[YOUTUBE]4J4Jy4yJE1E[/YOUTUBE]
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rsk21
Active Member
I echo what BFT says to an extent.
One of the many things that attracted me to AMG was that they have a history of building either great engines, engines with great potential or indeed engines which tick both of those boxes. The displacement of those engines is to my mind largely irrelevant. I loved the n/a engine in my C63, I love the biturbo engine in my CLS63, I've been hugely impressed every time I've been in a 4 pot 45 engined car and from what I have seen and heard the 4litre is going to be pretty special too. Four different engines of different displacements but all in their own way pretty damn special which to me is a big part of why a real AMG is such an evocative thing.
One of the many things that attracted me to AMG was that they have a history of building either great engines, engines with great potential or indeed engines which tick both of those boxes. The displacement of those engines is to my mind largely irrelevant. I loved the n/a engine in my C63, I love the biturbo engine in my CLS63, I've been hugely impressed every time I've been in a 4 pot 45 engined car and from what I have seen and heard the 4litre is going to be pretty special too. Four different engines of different displacements but all in their own way pretty damn special which to me is a big part of why a real AMG is such an evocative thing.
Boss55
Member
- Joined
- Dec 1, 2014
- Messages
- 36
- Car
- Cls55 amg
Even BMW are going smaller engines with Boost to keep up the power with better fuel economy and lower Co2 emissions
Conquistador
MB Enthusiast
Tying in nicely to all this, I actually went to a lecture held in the launch theatre at Ford Dunton last night given by Jonathan Willey, Senior Systems Engineer at Mercedes-Benz High Performance Engines Ltd. It concentrated on the new hybrid and ERS systems and the demise of the V8 engine in F1. Unsurprisingly Ferrari threw their toys out the pram in 2010 when it was announced that teams must develop a 1.6 V6 unit, saying they don't produce anything less than a V8.
I don't religiously follow F1 but I found it fascinating and certainly came away knowing more than I went in with. He talked in depth about the software, ECU, fuel delivery and various FIA regulations which force them to adapt and evolve their engines.
As you might expect, he said the sort of hybrid technology in F1 cars will be in AMG's road cars in a few years...
I don't religiously follow F1 but I found it fascinating and certainly came away knowing more than I went in with. He talked in depth about the software, ECU, fuel delivery and various FIA regulations which force them to adapt and evolve their engines.
As you might expect, he said the sort of hybrid technology in F1 cars will be in AMG's road cars in a few years...
grober
MB Master
AMG are essentially hot rodders Their idea of "tuning" is to stick a very large displacement engine in a small car. As I have pointed out before the standard 1.8 turbo petrol puts out lots more hp and torque per litre than the 6.3 V8. 
C350 Carl
Member
It's the delivery of the power, how flat and linear the torque curve is and the Bhp/ton thats important.
The sound is nice outside. But with clever use of engine mounts you can get the same sort of sound in the cabin so you wouldn't notice the difference.
I spent a fair bit tuning a previous car. Due to the amount of torque it was running i put VF Engineering Engine, Gearbox and Dogbone mounts on it. When i did people thought my car was running a 6 Pot turbo. It wasn't it was running a 2.0 4Pot.
F1 cars prove beyond any doubt that there are lots of "replacements for displacement".
Just my tuppence.
The sound is nice outside. But with clever use of engine mounts you can get the same sort of sound in the cabin so you wouldn't notice the difference.
I spent a fair bit tuning a previous car. Due to the amount of torque it was running i put VF Engineering Engine, Gearbox and Dogbone mounts on it. When i did people thought my car was running a 6 Pot turbo. It wasn't it was running a 2.0 4Pot.
F1 cars prove beyond any doubt that there are lots of "replacements for displacement".
Just my tuppence.
def90cars
MB Enthusiast
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- Feb 10, 2014
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- Derby
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- S205 AMG C63S, W204 C63 AMG PPP, Abarth 595 Competizione, Fiat 500 Twinair, Toyota Carina E GTi
AMG are essentially hot rodders Their idea of "tuning" is to stick a very large displacement engine in a small car. As I have pointed out before the standard 1.8 turbo petrol puts out lots more hp and torque per litre than the 6.3 V8.
So my 0.9litre 105bhp is even better then?
p.s. 6.2l V8
WDB124066
MB Enthusiast
- Joined
- Apr 17, 2009
- Messages
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- 1996 E320 Sportline Cabriolet x 2
That with a bit of electricity from regenerative braking for the low down torque and it could be the best of both worlds.
With IC's there really is nothing like displacement for low down punch, but, electric cars have that problem licked as far as I know, could it be this is the way the Engineers are thinking - a compromise - V8 noise with electric torque when required? Hope so....
With IC's there really is nothing like displacement for low down punch, but, electric cars have that problem licked as far as I know, could it be this is the way the Engineers are thinking - a compromise - V8 noise with electric torque when required? Hope so....
